Read the Episode Transcript...

Naomi: Hello, and welcome back to the Live Fab Life podcast. I'm your host, Naomi Nakamura, and all month long we've been talking about stress. We've explored if it really is in fact a big deal and something that needs to be taken seriously. We talked about ways to slow down, especially if you have a Type A personality, which interestingly, but not surprisingly, has turned out to be one of this show's most popular episodes.

Then, on the last episode, I shared tips on how to have a healthier holiday season. Now I took my own advice, and I slowed down just a little bit, and I didn't publish an episode for you last week. But today I'm back, and now we're looking forward to the new year. How we manage and deal with unavoidable stress really comes down to self-care and how we take care of ourselves, and joining me for her third episode on the show is my good friend, Tami Hackbarth, the 100% Guilt-Free Self-Care Coach.

Now, Tami was most recently on back in Episode 059, where we had a lively discussion on how to be an advocate for women's health. But it was exactly one year ago, way back in Episode 018, where she made her first appearance here on the show, and she introduced us to her definition of self-care, which goes well beyond the massages, and the manis and pedis, and spa treatments that we've come to think of. So if you haven't listened to that episode yet, I strongly recommend you back, and to listen to that one before you listen to this one.

Today, Tami is back, and she's sharing with us her observations and the takeaways that she's made after a year of working with professional women, just like you and I, on how they've approached their self-care, and what their take on it was. So you will hear Tami share how self-care really is the foundation upon which every single aspect of our lives is built on. She'll talk about how we get in our way with a scarcity mindset, and then she'll give us some tips on how to set ourselves up for success so that we can finally achieve the goals that we've spent a lifetime wanting to do. She shares a lot of great nuggets, and we have some really deep conversations, so without further ado, let's get to the show.

Hello, Tami, and welcome back to the show.

Tami: Thank you for having me!

Naomi: You are a regular here! This is your third episode with us.

Tami: Yay!

Naomi: So for those who have not yet listened to the first two episodes you were on, they're not quite familiar with what you do, why don't you introduce yourself, tell us who you are, what you do, and who you do it for.

Tami: All right, well, I am Tami Hackbarth, and I'm known as the 100% Guilt-Free Self-Care Coach, and I help professional women get their time and energy back so they can go after their big dreams.

Naomi: Wow. It's quite a big task there! So how did you come to do this work?

Tami: Well, I came to do this because I used to think that I needed to work harder, longer hours, get more organized, or manage my time better. But none of that was really true. What I really needed to do was get crystal clear on my priorities, set some boundaries, and actually take care of myself so I had the energy to do what I wanted to accomplish.

Naomi: That's a lot in that statement right there!

Tami: Well, which part's a lot?

Naomi: Let's see. "Set some boundaries," that's kind of a really big thing. That's some really life lessons that take a lifetime to learn for some people.

Tami: Yes! Yes. And I think of it more as not so much lessons, but as a practice.

Naomi: Skills. It's a life skill.

Tami: Skills. It's a life skill that we have to practice all the time.

Naomi: And keep checking in with ourselves on.

Tami: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Totally.

Naomi: It's interesting we're having this question today, the last Tuesday of the year, because we're at the time of year where we all want to be more organized. We're all out buying our new 2019 planners to figure out how to manage our time better. I'm going to admit, I spent the past day evaluating different apps to see if they might be better than what I'm actually using, and after all the time I came back to, "Oh, no. What I was using was okay."

So you call yourself the 100% Self-Care Coach. So clearly, this is the approach you take to self-care, but why don't you share how do you actually define that. Because when I think of self-care, it really comes down to taking care of myself, but for a lot of people they think, "Well, I need to book a spa day. I'm going to get my mani and pedis."

Tami: Yeah! And all of that, sure. That's awesome. I think of it, self-care, as like the foundation to a house. There are the intentional acts that we do to take care of our mind, body, spirit, relationships, home, money. The thing is, if you imagine that being the foundation of a house, like the pillars, and the things that structure, the things that hold the walls up, and hold the roof on, that's your self-care. The manis and the pedis, they're like a pretty front door. They are nice to have. It is lovely. "Oh, my god, it's so pretty." It feels good.

Naomi: It's the home décor.

Tami: It's the home décor. It's the bling of the house. But here's the thing. If you have a pretty front door, but your walls are crumbling in, or you have holes in your floor, or your toilet doesn't work, it's not really the place you want to be. So I work with people to really dig in to their internal systems. Like, if your money's out of whack, you're not going to feel that good in your life. If your relationships with other people are out of whack, you're not going to feel that good. If your relationship with yourself is out of whack, you're not going to feel that good. So that has nothing to do with going to the spa. It has to do with ... It's kind of doing what a lot of people avoid, which is the hard work, the long-term work, the uncomfortable work, the setting the boundaries, the getting clear, the saying no, so that we can figure out like, "What really is important to me?" And, "How the hell am I going to get there?"

But I will tell you, you're never going to get to your dreams if you're constantly late on your bills, because you haven't figured out, "How do I get these things paid on time?" You're not going to get to your dreams if you're exhausted because you aren't feeding yourself well, or you aren't moving your body, or you aren't sleeping. A lot of the stuff I work with people on is super duper basic. It's what your doctor tells you to do. And yet, we don't have an information problem. I don't even think we have a motivation problem. We have a goal setting problem, because people are like, "I want change now!"

And you're like, "Well, how are you going to get there?" "Well, I want change." You're like, "But how are you going to get there?"

A big part is, "Oh, I want to be a different person in 2019." I'm like, "Well, what do you mean by that?"

Maybe one goal at a time to then change who you are. I'm getting a little ahead of myself here.

Naomi: What I wanted to point out to people is that ... And this is the reason I have you on this show, is I talk a lot about addressing the root causes of things, about backing things up, and addressing your non-negotiables. If you think of these things that you mentioned you just help people with, with their body, their mind, their spirit, their relationship, their finances. These are the foundations. When the antithesis of all these things is stress.

Tami: Yes.

Naomi: And when we look at our health, and we look at illness, and we look at disease, the things that people come to me for, at the root of all those things is stress. How do we get stress? How do our bodies become inflamed and have to deal with inflammation? How do these things all form in is? It's when these other parts of our lives are not yet settled, and these things, this is how we take a holistic approach, they are all intertwined together.

Tami: Absolutely! I work with people on the building blocks. Again, if you are building a house you start with ... Some people think you might start on flat ground. A lot of times you've got to dig deep to even pour the foundation, and it is unsexy work. I mean, who wants to spend a bunch of money building the foundation. I'm quietly raising my hand, because I know that's what's going to hold my house up. But most people are like, "Hey! When can we get to the fun part? I want to pick the finishes. I want to pick the paint colors."

But again, it's a hard sell at some point to go, "Why are you painting something that's not going to last? Why are you fancying up something that isn't sustainable?"

Again, it's deep work!

Naomi: It's unsexy. It's deep work, and the reason it's deep and it's difficult is because it's forcing us to face things that we don't want to face.

Tami: Yes, and I will say, what's interesting is when I'm working with women on these foundational pieces, when they finally are like, "Oh, my god! I am able to feed myself in a way that nourishes my body." They feel like a million bucks, because they've come to me, they're like, "I want this grandiose change in my life."

And I'm like, "Well, we're going to pick one tiny slice." And then we work just on food.

And then after a few months, they're like, "Shut up! I have this feeling of success now. I can do this. Oh, my god, I do feel so much better."

Naomi: Well, and it's this thing-

Tami: I work with people on sleep and on movement.

Naomi: It's the same thing with people who come to me and they want to quit sugar, because they know it's good for them. But in the very same conversation, or they want clear skin, and I say, "Well, these products will help you, but if you really want sustainable, lasting, permanent things, you probably should look at your diet."

"Oh, but I don't want to give this up. I don't want to feel deprived."

And I'm like, "If you have these issues, you are already deprived, and you just don't know how good you can feel if you just take the time to address these," like you said, unsexy things.

Tami: Yeah, but is a ... There's a bit of a leap of faith.

Naomi: There is.

Tami: There's a leap of faith. It's funny, because one of the known things that you get from a doctor is like, "Oh, you should move your body." I almost said the E word. But, "You should move your body more often, on more days than not, five to six days a week." I realized this year, at 48, that I had never done that. I always did between three and four. So I decided to do an experiment to see what would happen. Would I feel differently? And what I found was, oh, my god, I felt so much better I can't even believe it! I was like, "Oh! I was wrong."

Naomi: It's, you don't know what you don't know.

Tami: You don't know what you don't know. And another obstacle that people come to me with is they're like, "Yeah, but I tried that, and it didn't work."

I'm like, "You tried what?"

They're like, "Well, I exercised for like three or four days a week for two weeks."

And I'm like, "Well, I know. I did, too, in the '90s. It didn't work because it's meant to be forever."

Again, unsexy. We have this cultural view of like, "More. Now. Faster. Better." When our bodies are still in the long-term over the course of your lifetime, kind of actions, and so we have this disconnect between how our culture works and how our bodies work.

And so my thought is, "Let's do an experiment. See how it works. Make adjustments, and then do another experiment. See how it works. Make adjustments." It's more of a quiet way of actually reaching your goals without a lot of glitz and glamour.

Naomi: Yes.

Tami: And shouts from the rooftop.

Naomi: So you were first on about a year ago, and you just talked about doing a lot of experiments, and trying things out, incorporating more movement into your life. So over the past year, what have you come to learn about the women who you serve, and have perceptions of self-care changed?

Tami: Yes, they have. For people that are run in to my circle, they totally have. Then I dip my toe in other people's circle, and I'm like, "Oh!" I'm still getting hit with the, "It's too expensive," and, "I don't have time for that," and people are kind of angry about it.

But the people who I'm hanging with ... So I have a Facebook group, and I'm on Instagram, and I talk my face off in person about self-care, and those people are like, "Oh! You mean, when I consistently floss my teeth."

I'm like, "I'm going to send you gold stars for that." Because go you. Your teeth thank you.

Naomi: I just have to tell you, a couple of years ago, I set that for my goal. And it is the only goal that I kept with the entire year. Every night, I floss my teeth, and I feel so much better doing it! But it was probably the one thing that I stuck with, and it made a difference for me, and I feel so much better doing it.

Tami: Right! And it probably bugged you for years that you didn't floss your teeth.

Naomi: Yes!

Tami: And then you're like, "Oh! I did it, and then I did it for a year." Then you're like, "Now I'm a person who flosses."

So this is one of the things that 100% needs to change, is people's mindset. They're so much black or white. "I eat clean, or I have failed. I eat this way, or I have failed."

And I'm like, "Wow. That's a lot of pressure for something you need to do at least 21 times a week."

Recently, I worked with somebody on ... She wanted to create a peaceful relationship with food. I'm like, "What does that look like? What does it sound like? What does it feel like? What does it," ...

And she was like, "What?"

I was like, "Let's get into the nitty-gritty. Like, what does it mean?"

So what she came up with was she wanted to cook herself nourishing food. I was like, "Great! How many times a week do you want to do that?" I said, "You have 21 meals."

And she said, "Twenty-one."

I was like, "Well, that right there, friend, that's the trap. That's a trap!"

And she was like, "What? But I really want to."

And I was like, "I know. I really would like to be perfect, too. But since we're human, and we can't ever be perfect because it doesn't exist, how many times a week do you not want to do that? How many times a week do you want to do a grab and go? How many times a week do you want to spend at a restaurant?" I was like, "We really need to get into defining this."

So she does an experiment. "Check in with me, and let me know how it's feeling. Let me know how it's going."

And she came up with all of these very interesting observations about her own inner thoughts about this act. I mean, she's in her late 30s, and she's been feeding herself for a long time, and yet just by paying really close attention to how things felt, the thing that she gave me the resistance on, on the, "No, no, no, we're not going to be going for 21 out of 21," she was like, "Turns out that was key. Because suddenly I was like, 'I have a framework but I don't have to beat myself up. I can make this happen more often than not.'"

And I was like, "As somebody that also struggles with perfectionism, one of the things I embrace is that more gray thinking, progress over perfection." Because perfect doesn't exist, so let's stop smacking ourselves with the perfect stick.

Naomi: Is having grace for yourself-

Tami: Having great, absolutely! Absolutely! And I have another client working on movement in the same way. So her thing was that she was going to buy herself an expensive pair of Athleisure pants at the end of her six week experiment. At the beginning of the experiment she was like, "I really want these pants."

And I was like, "Great. Let's put it on the list."

And then she's five weeks in, and she's like, "Oh, my god! I think I'm going to get those pants."

I was like, "Why are you so surprised?"

She's like, "I've never consistently exercised this much in my life."

I was like, "Well, have you ever had an accountability coach?"

She was like, "No."

And I'm like, "You're welcome! You're going to get the pants!"

And so this idea like, A, we're not going for perfection. I asked her, "What do we want your movement goal?"

"Seven out of seven days."

I was like, "Oh. We really have to get rid of this all-or-nothing." But it's like, this is how we live! We set unrealistic goals.

"I want to be the fittest I ever am in my life!"

"What's your current level of movement?"

"I don't move."

"Well, it seems unrealistic that you're going to go from zero movement to being an iron-man in the next 26 minutes. Perhaps we could scale that goal back a bit."

I try to convince people to make their goals so simple. They don't make them, they'll be like, "Dammit. I'm dumb." Or not I'm dumb, "That was dumb. I didn't do it." Because here's the thing, I want you to have success.

Naomi: Yep.

Tami: Because success breeds success, and we can always add to the goal later. So mindset's a big obstacle, too much black-or-white thinking, perfect or nothing, and then the other thing that gets in people's way, super harsh self-talk. Woo! Ooh! That's a big one.

Naomi: So what I'm hearing from you is it takes a lot of self-awareness.

Tami: Yes.

Naomi: It takes a lot of grace.

Tami: Yes.

Naomi: And thinking of grace as a form of self-care, and then opening yourself up to receive help through accountability.

Tami: Oh, yes.

Naomi: And that is also a form of self-care. Would you agree?

Tami: Totally! And here's why. Most people who I work with are ... You know, and they're in their mid-career people. They're in their 30s or 40s. That means that they have 30 or 40 years of life under their belts, and they're like, "You know, it's crazy. I still haven't ever been able to make myself be a consistent exerciser." Or, "I still haven't, I haven't figured out how to feed myself at work during my work day, even though I go there every day. Still can't make myself go to bed, even though 365 days a year I go to bed."

So we have tons of evidence that you going alone isn't working. Also, we have tons of evidence when people who need accountability get accountability, suddenly they're reaching their goals pretty easily actually, because ... And you and I have talked about this. I'm a questioner. You're a Questioner in Gretchen Rubin’s Four Tendencies framework. But a big part of my client base are what they call Obligers, which by definition how they react to outer accountability is that they're like, "Yes. Please. More. Thank you, because I need that, or I won't do anything for myself." So if you're an obliger, 100%, get yourself some accountability, and if you are not going to work directly with a coach, that's fine. Join a training group. Get in a group fitness class.

Naomi: Enlist a friend.

Tami: Enlist a friend! Find somebody else who needs accountability in that way, and set yourself up. The other thing that is very common with people who are obligers, is they feel bad about ... They're like, "But I need outside assistance." And they feel bad, because they're like, "I'm weak. I can't do it alone."

My thought is like, "Well, we need mindset reframing on this, too." Because I'm like, "Oh, my god! You only need somebody else is outside looking at you to do things? I'll keep my eyes on you all the time. What shall we accomplish? Because apparently, I can make you do things by looking at you. What do you want to accomplish? Let's do this thing."

Naomi: You bring up a good point, where you work with a lot of people who are in our age groups, who are children of the '80s and '90s, and we have this mindset that's very different from Millennials and generations younger. I don't even know what they're called. I've thought about this a lot, is like, how did we come to form these beliefs?

When people tell me they can't give up sugar, or too much fat's bad for them, and I'm thinking, "Like, how did you come to form that belief? What was your source for that?"

Tami: When we were growing up ... The fat-free fad was all the rage when we were growing up.

Naomi: It was.

Tami: It was that. We didn't realize that they were replacing fat with sugar, and just making things taste terrible. So I think that's part of it. Part of it is, it's very American to be like, "I am independent."

Naomi: I need to do it all.

Tami: "I need to to it all!"

I have this picture of the Marlboro Man, sole cowboy, kind of thing. What's the equivalent of the woman? That movie, Working Girl, with Melanie Griffith. Apparently, it turned 30 yesterday.

Naomi: I haven't seen it.

Tami: I have mixed feelings about it. I mean, 30 years, there's been a lot of culture changes. But it was pivotal. I will just say, I keep saving this thing on Instagram, and it is, "Women are expected to work as if they don't have children, and to mother as if they don't have a job."

I still think that's true, and this idea that the perfect mother exists, and the perfect worker exists. It doesn't.

I feel like part of my life's work is whispering in people's ears, "Nobody does life well [inaudible 00:20:55]"

I don't know if you follow Denise Duffield-Thomas.

Naomi: I do!

Tami: But she wrote a post earlier this year that went viral, and it was all about all of the help that she hires to help her family while she does her business. Like, she has somebody that comes over and makes breakfast, and cleans up. Then she has somebody else that does the laundry. She basically outsources all of her house things, and then she outsources a bunch of business things. And people apparently went nutty about it. Because the thing is, is we have this idea like, "Oh, if I was just a better person." This is a good one. "If I just worked harder, if I just worked longer, if I was just more organized, and if I just have better systems, if I had the best planner in the whole world, I could be perfect."

And my thought is, "If you'd just hired somebody to help you, you could get way further than you'll ever get by yourself," on anything!

Naomi: Yes.

Tami: One of my New Year's ... I almost said, "Resolution." I don't do those. One of my New Year's things is we have some clutter hot-spots in my house that drive me crazy. So I'm going to hire a professional planner. Not a planner, a professional-

Naomi: Organizer!

Tami: Organizer.

Naomi: Organizer.

Tami: An organizer to come to my house to solve the problem, to solve that reoccurring problem. And here's why. Again, I am 48 years old. I've always had a clutter problem. Perhaps now's the time for me to acknowledge I need help with this.

Naomi: That's a great example of self-awareness.

Tami: It's not going to solve itself. You mention that, and so I want to bring this up. A lot of people before they work with a coach, they don't have a lot of self-awareness, and they don't hear their own negative self-talk. So I have sessions where we talk on the phone, and we have our whole thing, and then between sessions we do a lot of texting and emailing with clients. I have them check in with me about stuff, and a client will say something that will make me wince. I'm like, "Ooh! That was really mean!" And I will mention it.

And they're like, "What are you talking about?"

I was like, "Well, your self-talk made me feel bad." Like, "Your self-talk made me think, 'That person is being mean to my client?' And that person is you."

And they're like, "Huh."

I'm like, "What if you said it like this instead?"

They're like, "Well, those, I don't use those words about myself."

I'm like, "What, would it feel better if you did?"

Naomi: It's also, if you were to take those words, would you say that to someone else?

Tami: Right.

Naomi: And if you wouldn't, why are you saying that to yourself? I have an example for you on something that I discovered about myself, is I realized that I had a scarcity mindset. I'm someone in my house, and when my friends come over, they love coming to my house, because my house is always stocked with everything, overstocked with everything. And I realized that ... I went through a coaching program where I realized this, that this was all a part of me having a scarcity mindset, because I was always fearful of running out of things.

So perhaps why I have a problem with clutterness, and when I think back, way to the question about how did I come to form this belief, I have to go all the way back to my childhood because I grew up on a very small island where we didn't have shopping malls. We didn't have fast food. We didn't have all of these things, so whenever we got these ...

For example, we would fly to another island to go school shopping once a year. So when we ran out of something, we had to wait a very long time before getting it again. That was a huge, monumental, "Aha," for me about myself, and it's really played a factor into how I make decisions moving forward, and factoring into my self-care.

Tami: Scarcity mindset is the real deal.

Naomi: It is!

Tami: And it can come out of anywhere about anything.

Naomi: It affects every aspect of our life! I can see it in how I do my work. I can see it in how I go grocery shopping, how I clean my home, my relationship with others, and it was about two years ago that it really came to the forefront for me, and something that I have actively been working on since, which I had no idea that I had that issue.

Tami: Okay, so here's ... Now, I'm like, "Oo, tell me more." When you discovered you had a scarcity mindset, what did you do? Like, what are some of the things that are helping you move through this?

Naomi: Now when I have a decision to make, or I have a problem about something, I literally ask myself, "How am I coming to this decision? What is forming my belief, or what is my thought process in this decision?"

And this is where I really came to the realization that my time is my biggest asset. We can always make more money. We can always get new things. We cannot get more time. That's made me more mindful in how I spend my time, who I spend my time with, and what things I ask for help with. So when you, talking about asking a professional organizer to help you, because you recognize that is not a core strength of yours, that's also saving you a lot of time, so you can be spending your time doing something that you are good at, or that you do enjoy more, and that translates to just being more joyful in your life.

Tami: Guys, my head is about to fall off from like the bobble-head that's like sitting here, nodding my head in agreement! Yes! I love spending my time on things that I ...

I have this thing, and it sounds kind of crass, but I'll share it with you. Sometimes you have to throw money into a problem to solve the problem. And if you are somebody that has a regular, salaried, full-time job, and you want a problem solved, you might be able to spend some money to solve the problem, and it might be less than you realize!

Naomi: Then that comes into the scarcity mindset as well, right? You think, "Well, why should I spend the money, when that's something I can do on my own?"

Yeah, you can do it on your own. But, one, are you doing it well? Number two, is that really how you want to be spending your time? Again, where do these beliefs come from?

Tami: Oh, yeah. I'm like, "Ah, my depression era parents or grandparents?" It's generational. Let's be real, guys. Most of our core beliefs are prerecorded and inserted us before we move out of our house, or before we really even hit puberty. Like, "Why do I think that way? Oh, well, my grandma always said ... Or my parents always said," ... Absolutely, and again, we have this idea that everybody does everything on their own.

As somebody who loves a behind the scenes look into other people's businesses, into other people's families, because I'm like, "Oh! Well, no wonder why you can do X-Y-Z, because you hire out F-Q and R. That makes sense." Suddenly I'm like, "Oh! You don't do everything."

And the other thing is, because I know we might get some blow back on the throw money at it ... Throw money at it is one way to look at it. Another way is, "How can I swap or trade or co-op it?"

One of the ways that when my kid was really little, you still have to feed yourself, and even when you're like, "What am I going to do with this toddler while I grocery shop and cook?" The long and short of it is I did a food swap with another family. I cooked a bigger portion than I did for my own family. I froze it. We had a weekly play date, which was like built in childcare, and mama talk and therapy there, and we did our soup swap. When I say throw money at it, or enlist help, it doesn't have to be a paid person. That is one of many options. And some people, they love to do yard work. I am actively searching for those people so I can be like, "Hey! Do you want to come and do my yard work? Because I will do the unpleasant task that you don't like at your house."

Because you can always swap. Last night I was with somebody who, she hates the phone, and I said, "Oh, do you want me to record your outgoing message for you?"

She was like, "That is the sweetest thing anyone's ever said to me!" She goes, "But I think that's going to be my hurdle in 2019."

I was like, "Well, girl, I am here for you. Because I can totally record your message that says, 'Thank you for calling me. Please text me. I don't answer. I do not listen to voicemails.'"

That's no skin on my ... I don't care. I can do that for you.

Naomi: Think about how transformational that can be for her. She hates the phone.

She's getting phone calls. You tell people how you want to be communicated to. Guess what? You have better communication. Guess what? Things get done. Guess what? You have better relationships.

Tami: Absolutely. And every time the phone rings, you don't wince, thinking, "Oh, my god! Why don't they listen to me?" Well, because you haven't told them.

Naomi: Self-awareness.

Tami: Self-awareness. And again, we say it's self-awareness, but sometimes other people, you have to show them behind your curtain a little bit, so they can be like, "Wow! Your self-awareness, you're mean to yourself!"

Or, here's another one. Another common belief is everyone's doing it better but you. Like, everyone's super good at stuff except you. And as a coach, basically people call me. It's like confession. People call me and tell me all things that are ... They're like, "This sucks, and this sucks, and this sucks."

I'm like, "Okay. Well, what do you want to work on?" And then we do. And then I get to tell them, "I do this all day long with lots of people, with lots of degrees and all of these things behind their name. No one is without spots in their life where they're like, 'Wow! I am terrible at that.' Okay! Good! Because we're all terrible at something. Let's get some help with that."

Naomi: That means you're human.

Tami: Yes! Yes.

Naomi: And no one likes the perfect person. Let's just be honest.

Tami: They don't, and I don't know any! I feel like I've done this human study of the course of my life, because I'm like, "They seem perfect. Let's get to know them a little better." And I'm always absolutely delighted when I meet somebody ... And it's not delighted like, "Oh, good! You're like the rest of us," with a mean voice. It's like, "Oh, good! You're like the rest of us," glee voice. Because I'm trying to really work on this theory that everybody's kind of bumbling through and doesn't know how to do stuff, and we're all doing the best we can all the time.

So if I meet those people who are perceived to be perfect, and they're like, "Dude, this is hell-a-hard," or, "I don't know how to do that, and I just straight hire it out."

I'm like, "Rock on! Go, you."

Naomi: And the point is, is that we're all that way.

Tami: Yes.

Naomi: But the important thing is that if it's bothering you, and if it's something that you want to work on, then take action.

Tami: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And everybody loves taking action in January.

Naomi: Yes, they do!

Tami: Now, can we talk about that for a second?

Naomi: Let's talk about self-care in the new year.

Tami: Self-care in the new year.

Naomi: You gave me my favorite quote about the new year, "February is the new January."

Tami: Totally, because this is what I've learned over the years, everyone can do something for 30 days, and then February starts, and then people start dropping like flies on their resolutions.

Naomi: Oh, yeah, I have to tell you, as someone who belongs to a gym, the regular goers, we hate January. We call it the January Joiners. But we all know if we just put up with it for a month, and hold off, things will be back to normal come February!

Tami: Well, by Valentine's Day, it's like equilibrium back at the gym has been reached. But here's the thing. If you are somebody that has set a resolution and, "I done it again!" I don't just work with people on health things, I work with them on relation things, and boundaries, and saying no, and money, and blah, blah, blah.

If you are somebody that has your mind set on reaching a goal in a particular area, and you have over the course of your life never gotten to March with your thing, now would be a good time to say, "This year, I'm really serious about doing this, so I'm going to call in a professional to help me." Right? I mean, how much evidence do we need that we are not going to do the thing we said we're going to do, because we still aren't doing it. And we set the same resolutions. "I'm going to lose weight."

By the way, too big. Too big, unrealistic-

Naomi: Well, and it's not something that you necessarily have control over. Yes, that might be the intention, but maybe your goal can be, "I'm going to move for an hour a day, five days a week, three days a week."

Tami: The process-

Naomi: Depending on wherever you're starting. Something that you have control over.

Tami: Exactly. Process versus outcome.

Naomi: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tami: So we don't set outcome goals, because we're not in control of the outcome. Start small, again, so small that you would feel silly if you didn't do it.

Like, I had this doctor one time, and at the time I thought she was completely ridiculous, but I was at that particular time in my life, very much buying into, "I'm too busy," aka, "I'm too important to change my lifestyle."

And what she said was, "I don't care what you do for a living."

And I was like, "Well, I don't like that lady, but okay."

And she said, "You need to move, otherwise you're going to," ...

By the way, I was 28, so this is even silly to me that we're having this conversation.

But she said, "You need to move your body, because this injury is not going to heal itself if you do not move."

And I was like, "But I am too blah, ah, ah." I gave her the I'm-too-busy speech.

Well, she said a number of notable things, and I think it's hilarious this came from a health professional, like with the jacket, the whole shebang. They're all so good, I don't know where to start. She said, "Okay, since you exercise zero now, today when you get home, I want you to put your exercise clothes on, and do that again for five days."

And I was like, "And do what?"

She goes, "Just that."

I was like, "You're nuts."

She's like, "And then, after you've done that for five days, I want you to go outside and walk around the block for five minutes each day for five days."

And I was like, "You're ridiculous."

And then she was like, "And then the week after, I want you to do get dressed, and then go out for ten minutes."

And I was like, "Oh, my god." And I'm like rolling my eyes at her.

And she's like, "So I'm teaching you how to build a habit from nothing to something."

And I was like, "Whatever. I'm in my 20s. I know stuff."

And then she said, "You know, why don't you go out with a friend?"

And then that made me laugh, because I was like, "Oh, my friends don't exercise."

To which she says, "Then you need to get new friends."

Naomi: New friends!

Tami: I was like, "This doctor just threw down!"

She was like, "I see your stupid excuses, and I'm just going to give you a really direct answer."

I was like, "Okay."

By the way, this was 20 years ago. Remember it was absolutely like it was yesterday, and I think to myself, "Huh? How do I have people work on their goals?" Really small.

The other day I had a client. She's reached her first goal. Now she's going to work on the second thing. What does she do? She comes out. "I want to do seven out of seven."

I'm like, "Well, how many are you doing now?"

"None."

I'm like, "Well then, we're going to go to the other end of the scale. How about we go from zero to two, instead of zero to seven."

And she goes, "Well, that just doesn't feel like it's going to do anything."

I was like, "No, honey. You're already not doing anything."

And she was like, "Good point."

I was like, "So are you ready to reach the goal that is so small it feels ridiculous?"

And she's like, "Yeah."

I was like, "Okay. I'm just here to keep the expectations super low so that we meet them."

And she was like, "Cool."

And I'm like, "We're not going to do two forever, unless we are.

But what I'd really like you to do is to feel good about reaching your goals."

Naomi: When you set those meaningful, achievable, realistic goals, celebrate it!

Tami: Yes! And the hardest part, resistance. Like, "Why would I celebrate that?"

I'm like, "Well, just because we can. What do you want to do? What do you want to do?"

And I had one client whose love language was gifts, and so she, one session, we just brainstormed all of these things that felt so loving to her, that all had to related to fitness, and all that because she was working on, again, on fitness goals.

But she was like, "Oh, my, this is hilarious, Misses I'm-not-exercising-at-all goes from I'm not exercising at all to, oh, my god, I'm so excited about my goal, because I know I can reach it, and then I can get myself this present."

I was like, "We're all seven inside, and we are all hoping we get a good prize in the cereal box. But since we're grown-ups, we get to make the cereal box prizes whatever we want!" And some people, they don't care about material things. They want daily gold stars. That's me. Other people want public recognition. Other people want this camaraderie with others. It's like whatever floats your boat, but yes, celebration is a pivotal part of success.

By the way everyone who's listening right now, I want you to right now write down five things that you're celebrating in your life. Why? Because we don't do that enough.

Naomi: Form of having grace with yourself.

Tami: And it's also a form of noticing when things go well.

Naomi: Yes, and not just-

Tami: Which by the way, way better than when things go bad!

Naomi: All right, so we're talking about self-care in the new year. So I'm just going to recap some of the things you shared, because you shared a lot of great things there.

Number one, ask for help.

Tami: Yes.

Naomi: And that can be from hiring a coach. That can be from joining a group, whatever kind of group that may be for you. That can be from soliciting the help of a friend, your partner, whoever that may be. Just ask for help. Don't go at it alone. You've tried doing it alone, probably for a number of years.

Tami: All of the years!

Naomi: If it hasn't worked, try something new.

Tami: And it's not you. You're not terrible because you haven't made exercise a solidified habit in your life. I mean, it's you, but it's not you. Don't take it personally. You're just someone that probably needs help.

Naomi: Yes. And as someone who has been that person, and then got help, and was really good at it, had health setbacks and went back to square one, I'm now getting help again to get back there again, because I recognize that I do better when I have help.

Work on mindset. We talked about that a lot.

Define what's important to you, what's your priorities. What's your values, and then use that to set process oriented goals that are manageable, and that can help. You know, you want to set yourself up for success.

Tami: Yep.

Naomi: Check in to see what's working and what's not, and be okay with having to make adjustments if you need to.

Tami: Grace.

Naomi: Grace, and celebrate your accomplishments.

Tami: Yes.

Naomi: Well, I'm excited for the new year now.

Tami: I am, too!

Naomi: You know, I am a Questioner, so the new year is not that ... It's not this whole thing for me. Like, if I want to do something, as a questioner I'm not going to wait to the new year to do it. I'm not going to wait to the first day of the month to do it. I'm not going to wait to Monday to get started. I'm just going to do it.

But, like you said, for a lot of people it is this pivotal milestone of when you want to start something new.

Tami: Oh, my god, can we just call this episode, Self-Care in the New Year, and the new year is any random Wednesday ever?

Naomi: Yes.

Tami: Because I feel the same way. I'm like, "Why January?"

Naomi: As a fellow Questioner-

Tami: As a Questioner, and because I live on a school calendar. This is not really a new year for me! I'm like, "Didn't the new year start in September?" So I'm like, "We're months into the new year, you guys. By the way, time is all made up, so just start today."

And that's the beautiful thing about this, because we're looking at this a whole life thing, because again, it doesn't end until you're dead, so we're going to like, "Any random Wednesday you want to get started on a goal, let's do it!"

But if you're really like, "I really want to do it this way," also good.

Naomi: Whatever floats your boat.

How can people, because you just said tons of gems here, and you do it every time you're on the show, how can people just connect with you and hear more from you?

Tami: Thank you. They can always find me at TamiHackbarth.com. You can also find me on Instagram, where I document my morning miles on stories five to six days a week @TamiHackbarth. And finally, if you want to get into the nitty-gritty of talking about self-care in like a two way street scenario, I have a Facebook group, and it's called, be ready for this, 100% Guilt-Free Self-Care with Tami Hackbarth. Come on over. Ask to join. Answer the questions, and be ready for five days of Facebook Live, where we're talking all about motivation, and habit formation, and removing obstacles to actually making our goals a reality.

Naomi: So if you want accountability, that's a great place to go.

Tami: Thank you.

Naomi: Well, thank you so much for coming on. I always love chatting with you on the podcast and otherwise.

Tami: Thanks for having me! This is always such a treat.