Episode 121: Understanding Your Priorities & Establishing Boundaries in the Workplace
If today was your last day on earth, are you happy?
Whether you go into an office or work from home, you likely spend the majority of your time “at work” with colleagues. So if you’re not happy at your work, chances are, you’re not happy in life, which is not a healthy way to live.
And when you peel back the layers, many times it can be attributed to a misalignment between your priorities and your work, a lack of boundaries, and/or poor communication.
The good news is, these things are all fixable!
Joining me in this episode is my colleague and former manager, Terri Quinn. Terri started her career in the tech industry 25 years ago and was one of the early pioneers of the TME (Technical Marketing Engineer) role.
You’ll hear Terri share what it was like starting her career as a young wife and mother in a male-dominated, fast-paced, highly-demanding industry. She discusses how it taught her the importance of knowing what your priorities are (because not everyone does) and owning them without guilt.
You’ll also hear us discuss how to establish boundaries in the workplace by:
Understanding your priorities and using them as a guide in setting boundaries
Recognizing your power within and asking for what you want
Self-marketing yourself with effective communication
This episode is a mirror of the discussions that Terri and I had every day for the three years that she was my manager. While always supportive, she constantly challenged my way of thinking. Her influence had a profound impact on how I approach my work and my attitude towards it, which has changed my outlook and how I communicate with others beyond the job.
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“How do you prioritize? What do you prioritize? Many don’t know what their priorities are. If you know what your priorities are, then, you can build your world around your most important priorities.”
Read the Episode Transcript...
Naomi Nakamura: Hello, my friends, and welcome back to The Live FAB Life Podcast. Now, at the time that this episode is released, it's Tuesday, March 24th. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, I am going on my second week of being in a shelter in place situation because of the coronavirus pandemic.
Many of us, myself not included, find ourselves having to suddenly become a remote worker. We're working from home. For many of you, this is something you've never done before. Personally, I have been a full time remote worker for the past eight years. I have been talking people that it kind of feels the rest of the world is finally adopting my lifestyle.
If this is something you're not used to, too, it is a hard adjustment, and it's something that you don't have a choice. You have to adjust to it, which is why the timing of this episode is so ironic, because we actually recorded this episode about six weeks ago, not knowing any of this is going to happen. This is an interview where I am joined by someone who is not an author. She is not a health expert. In fact, she is barely, and I mean, barely on social media. She has single handedly had such a profound effect, not just on my career and how I approach my career and my attitude towards my work, but it's also life skills that she's taught me that have trickled over into how I live my life.
Joining me in this episode is my dear friend and my colleague, Terri Quinn. Terri is based in the New England area. Really, she is a pioneer in the high-tech industry. We talked about in this episode how she's been with our company, because like I said, she was my manager. She hasn't been for a couple of years, but during that short time that she was, she's had a profound impact on me. We talked about how she's been with our company for the past 25 years.
If you think about it back then, the tech industry is a very young industry. 25 years ago, as a woman, those are pioneering days. She talks a little bit about that. Really, what this episode is about understanding your priorities and how to establish boundaries in the workplace, and why those things are tied together and why they're so important. There is no better person who I can think of who is better suited to have this conversation with.
In this episode, you are going to hear Terri and I have this discussion. She was my manager for about two or three years, and I kid you not, every single day, we had a discussion along this nature, which is why she had such a profound impact on me. What you're going to hear is you're going to hear us have a conversation about why is it important to know what your priorities are. We're going to talk about how you either live to work or you work to live, and how either of those is fine. It's okay, but you need to understand your priorities around that.
We're going to talk about how to take power and ownership of your career by understanding your priorities, so that you can, then, align your work with your priorities and your boundaries. We even talked about how, if you are a people manager and you manage people, how you have such a critical impact on someone's everyday well-being, which I think many managers don't understand that they do.
We also talked about understanding what your strengths are and understanding what do you need to do to be able to perform at that level? We especially talked about understanding how much power you have within yourself and the importance of being able to ask for what you want. We close out the episode where she asked this really important question that I think is so timely today. If today is your last day on earth, are you happy? I think you can kind of see how all of these things are tied together with prioritization and boundaries.
Like I said, we had no idea the world was going to be the way it is today when we recorded this episode back in early February. I think it's so well-timed. This is synchronicity happening in its moment. I hope you enjoyed this episode, and I hope by the end of the episode, you'll understand why she's someone who's so important to me. With that, let's get to the show.
Hello, Terri. Welcome to the show.
Terri Quinn: Thanks, Naomi. Hey, everybody.
Naomi Nakamura: For those who don't know Terri, she is a really good friend of mine. We've worked together for, I don't know, eight years, maybe. She was my manager for, how long were you my manager?
Terri Quinn: It was three or four.
Naomi Nakamura: In my over 20-year career, I would say one of, if not my best manager for a lot of the reasons that we're going to talk about today.
Terri Quinn: You were always one of my close confidants about a lot of things that we were talking about today.
Naomi Nakamura: I know. We would literally talk on the phone or by text or by chat, pretty much by the hour.
Terri Quinn: Definitely, daily.
Naomi Nakamura: Definitely, daily, but more accurately, by the hour. That's what I think makes working remotely so seamlessly, is because we had this strong connection. That's not what we're here to talk about. We're here to-
Terri Quinn: We'll talk about telecommuting another time.
Naomi Nakamura: Another day. I really wanted you on this show. On this show, I have a lot of people who are health experts, who are doctors, authors, subject matter experts; but, I also have a lot of real-life people who may or may not even have a social media presence, but I know who you are and I know the caliber of person you are and the value you provide. In our many, many, many conversations, we have had a lot of discussions on being a woman in a male-dominated tech industry and a male-dominated company and a male-dominated working Group, but also, on communication and on boundaries and on how, not just for women, but so many of us have so much angst when it comes to our work, whether we are enjoying it or not.
What I have come to realize is that we have so much power over how we feel, no matter in whatever situation we think we might be stuck in. That's really the conversation that I want to have with you today because we have had some really, really insightful conversations on that that has helped me and has really changed my perspective and made me shift my attitude about how things that I felt I might have been wronged in or things that I was angry or frustrated about that I realized actually have more power in me to flip the switch and to really focus on the things that I do have control over.
I can't even begin to speak about what kind of impact that's had on my mental health, on my emotional health, on my attitude on how I choose to show up which, as a result, has had this positive influence for the better on my overall wellness.
Terri Quinn: That's the key right? Overall wellness.
Naomi Nakamura: Yes.
Terri Quinn: Not everything is going to be going great on all aspects every single day. We know that. That overall wellness, that's the focus. Mental, physical, spiritual, emotional, it all wraps together.
Naomi Nakamura: You have been with the organization that we worked for, for how long?
Terri Quinn: Almost 25 years.
Naomi Nakamura: I think the company's about 30 years old, so you've been there from the very beginning.
Terri Quinn: Yeah.
Naomi Nakamura: You've seen it all.
Terri Quinn: My company and I grew up together.
Naomi Nakamura: From an industry perspective, the technology industry in the way as we know it now, you were there in its very infancy stages.
Terri Quinn: Yeah, absolutely. I was there before voiceover IP existed, before there was any such thing as security–
Naomi Nakamura: Wireless.
Terri Quinn: ... before telecommuting even existed. No wireless. Oh, no. It was a lot of growing. With that, to your point, things grow, things change. As a person, you have to constantly adapt to this new phase and marrying that with your personal growth. In your personal phases, it's been an interesting adventure, and a really good adventure, but a very interesting adventure.
Naomi Nakamura: 25 years ago, were your kids even born yet?
Terri Quinn: No? I started at my company, literally, the month I found out I was pregnant. It's been contracting for nine months before. I think I was childless and was engaged and got married two months before I joined the company. That was my mindset. My late 20s, still going strong without a whole lot of responsibility. Then, jumping into new company, new role, and, oh, newly married, and now, in nine months, I'm going to have an extended family, too. Lots of interesting things.
Naomi Nakamura: You've since gone on to have more children. Like I said, we work in a male-dominated industry company, working group. What was it like back then as a young working mother? I don't have kids, so I don't know, but I would imagine back then 25 years ago, things weren't maybe as progressive as they are now, not to mention the fact that I know every single industry is busy and has their demands. I think, in tech, it is a very unique and it's a whole different level of commitment to your job.
Terri Quinn: Yeah.
Naomi Nakamura: How did you manage that as a young mom raising girls?
Terri Quinn: This sets up the whole thing of prioritization and boundaries. You and I have had countless conversations around prioritize. How do you prioritize? What do you prioritize? One thing I tell everyone should they ask, and many times that they don't ask, is know what your priorities are. If you know what your priorities are, then, you can build your world around your most important priorities.
Naomi Nakamura: We're not talking about priorities just in your job. We're talking about priorities in your life.
Terri Quinn: Exactly, life priorities. For example, a lot of people, men and women, may go through the phase of work as a priority, right? Career ambitions and goals and being able to make that larger impact or, maybe, climbing the ladder, those things. At a point, work may be your number one priority. That's fabulous. Or, family may be your number one priority, whether it's planning or you have children, or whatever the case may be. The important thing is know what it is.
I will tell you, a lot of people stop right there because they actually hadn't consciously thought about that. They really don't know. All I tell them and you all the time is just be true to yourself. There is no right answer. Even if you're a mother of five and you want to say, "Work is my priority," you may not because you may feel a little guilty. Don't feel guilty. Be true, because if you're true, you can build everything around it, which then leads into setting that boundary session.
Now, for me, when you bring it up, it was interesting, because I was in this group, and yes, male-dominated industry, and I have a technical brain. I've always been in a male-dominated job function as well, for the most part. At that time, we were all a bunch of 20, very early 30s. Barely anyone had kids. We were just having a great time. Traveling. It was fabulous that I was the first woman to have children in that group.
Naomi Nakamura: Correct me if I'm wrong. There is a role now that is very common throughout the tech industry, and that is Technical Marketing Engineer.
Terri Quinn: Yeah.
Naomi Nakamura: You were one of the first persons to have that role. It didn't even exist industry-wide.
Terri Quinn: Correct.
Naomi Nakamura: You basically set the standard about what is this role and what does this mean. You did that while having your priorities straight, while having kids at a very young age, and setting boundaries. I do want to establish what really it was like back then.
Terri Quinn: You're right. It's not how it is now at all. We were the first company to have this role. For anyone out there, they're like, "What's Technical Marketing Engineer? We don't even care." We're the universal translator, basically, from the engineers that are coding and developing to the sales group on how to sell the product. We understood the technical side, but we could also speak sales language.
Naomi Nakamura: Use old English.
Terri Quinn: Yeah. I spoke layman English. I could read and absorb the textbook, but then, say it in human words. We were the first company that built that role. Back 24 years ago, there was only one group in our company that even had that role. It was new. It was not a traditional role that everyone was comfortable with.
You take that. Then, you take the fact that, of the group I was in, there were two females that were in this technical group. We were about 15% of the group, which meant we were progressive, because 15% were women. My boss was phenomenal. I will say that made the biggest difference, because when I wasn't a month to the job. By the way, I'm pregnant. I'm thinking, am I going to be told to find another job? Am I going to be dismissed? This is a big step. He stood up, gave me a high five, and said, "That's awesome."
That sets the stage in terms of me feeling comfortable with saying, "I know my boss is a family man and I know he supports his employees to have a family." A lot of other women and men even don't have that wonderful experience. That was huge for me.
Fast forward nine months, now I'm a mom. What do you do? Because a lot of people, no matter whether it's with children, or with spouses, or with where you want to live versus where you work, you always have the tension of how do you make it all work. It goes back to that what's your priority.
Here I am, professional woman, loving my work, loving using my brain, but being a mother was always the most important thing to me, always. How do I marry that? Because in my fabulous, idealistic world, I would be working part-time. Well, in the Silicon Valley, there is no such thing. That dream came crashing down a little bit. What I did do, again, because of the priority, I worked with my boss and said, "How would you feel if I tried working full time but on a four-day work week?" He said, "Well, let's try it. If you get the work done, let's try it." This was before telecommuting.
Naomi Nakamura: This was not [crosstalk 00:15:49].
Terri Quinn: No.
Naomi Nakamura: It was before telecommuting and it was before four-tens.
Terri Quinn: That's right, exactly, before telecommuting, before flex working. We didn't bring the computer at home at that time. You'd went into the office and you did your job. I thought, "Well, if I don't ask, the answer is 'no.'" That's a very big thing. If you know your priority, then ask, because you don't know what the answer is going to be. If you don't ask, the answer is "no."
Naomi Nakamura: I think you just gave two really, really good career tips here. Number one, your manager will make or break, not just your career, your daily life, your job.
Terri Quinn: Yes.
Naomi Nakamura: Coming from someone who had a very, I don't want to say he was a bad manager, I will say his communication style was very different. He was under his own pressures, which then came down to me. It was someone who micromanage. I can tell you that when you have a manager who is not on the same page with you, it will make your life miserable on a daily basis.
Terri Quinn: Absolutely.
Naomi Nakamura: Career tip, take into account the person that you are reporting to and what kind of impact they're going to have on you daily. Because, seriously, that is going to make or break your wellness. I can't emphasize that enough to me. At this point in my career, that is probably next to flexibility. The most important thing when it comes to being in a job is not the pay. It's not what title I'm at. It's not what paygrade I'm at. It's how is this going to impact me on a day-to-day basis? It's, am I going to have the flexibility to have the work-life balance that I want for myself? Am I going to be able to work with this manager daily?
Naomi Nakamura: The second tip you just gave is exactly what you said, ask for what you want. If you don't ask for what you want, the answer is always going to be "no."
Terri Quinn: Yeah. Because the person that has that power to grant yes or no, if they don't know what you want, what you need, and what your priorities are, they don't know how to give you what it is that you really need.
I have a couple of coined terms, Naomi. You've heard this from me before. You either work to live or you live to work. Both answers are fine, but I don't think there's really much of a third category. If you can honestly say, "I don't do either," then, I would challenge you don't know what your priorities are. Again, back to that.
If you live to work, that's fine. Then, that dictates that work is your priority. There's nothing wrong with that, but it means everything else has to take a second seat and be okay with that. I'm off the line of "I work to live." Everything around that was, "Make sure my job can fulfill what I need in my life, rather than what do I need to do to fulfill the job." That's a coined term I always, always tell people.
Then, the other thing is, if you do change managers or even if you don't, because you and I used to have every six month reviews, and even though I've been at the company 24 years, I've changed functions nine, maybe, 10 times, and have probably had somewhere 15, 18 managers. I don't know. The very first conversation I would have with them is, "Here's my priority. I will be your easiest employee if you agree to these requirements I have. If you don't want to support that, then, we'll come to an agreement of what I can do. Then, I can start looking elsewhere."
Sometimes, that shocks them, because what you're doing is, not in a bad way, but you're taking the power from them onto you. For example, my thing was always once telecommuting started, "I will get my job done. However, you need to give me the flexibility of when and how I get it done. If you're good with that, I guarantee you, I will over-exceed your expectations." Not one manager said "no" to that.
They may not have necessarily believed me, but they said, "That's what you're looking for." I said, "Yeah, I'm not looking for the promotion. I'm not looking to climb the ladder." Sometimes that answer was "I wanted that."
Once my kids were there, that was my answer, because I needed the flexibility to go to soccer games, to go to school functions, or to parent teacher, whatever. Even for people like you, you don't have children. It doesn't matter. You go in with this thing to your point. My priority for work is flexibility. I don't want to have to commute an hour and a half into the office. If you give me the flexibility and we've got video conferencing and audio conferencing and all these fabulous tools, then, I will deliver to you more than what you're asking for.
It's setting that, but it is also taking a little bit of the power away from the boss and just setting more of an equal footing. Not in a bad way, but setting more of an equal footing so that they know they actually don't hold all the reins. That's really important, not only in our male-dominated industry, but I would challenge, in any workplace.
Naomi Nakamura: Exactly, you're an equal. I think we really have to think about things as, whether they be your manager or an executive, or C-level executive, they're human. They can't read your mind. If you are not communicating these things to them, how do you expect to be treated in the way that you desire to be treated? A large part of my audience is women. We know that, as women, we might find these conversations difficult to have. How do you find or how did you find the confidence to have those conversations, to speak those things to a manager which, most likely than not, was probably male?
Terri Quinn: I don't even remember the last time I actually had a female manager, if ever.
Naomi Nakamura: You did. We had the same manager, female manager.
Terri Quinn: We did. That's right.
Naomi Nakamura: She was great. There was no problem having those conversations. In fact, the employee forgot because she didn't treat us like she was a manager.
Terri Quinn: That's right. She was great. You're right. Because she was human. That's right, because she was human. I will say, assume the other person doesn't know. So many times, you think, "Well, of course, they know," and you assume that they're going to have this telepathic link with you. No. Assume they don't know. Then, take the stance of what you're going to share with them is actually helpful, because you are communicating to them how you can work optimally for them, how you can deliver more and better in the environment you're setting up for them.
It's not it's ultimatum. It's, "Listen, here's how I can do a great job for you, but here's what I need in order to do that. Are you okay with it?"
Naomi Nakamura: Well, it's also, "This is what's in it for you."
Terri Quinn: Exactly.
Naomi Nakamura: "You're still going to get what you need from me." This is something that I've learned over the years is, in communicating with managers, first of all, don't tell them things they don't need to know because they have so much going on in their brain. Most of them like to be operated on the need-to-know basis. Right? Isn't that correct?
Terri Quinn: It is. It's so true. It's so true. I'm just laughing because that other coined term I have is, marketing equals telling the truth attractively. That's what this is about, because your conversation with your manager is you're showing them how big they're going to benefit.
Naomi Nakamura: You're marketing yourself.
Terri Quinn: You're marketing yourself, but it's not in that asking for a raise. It's not in those uncomfortable situations. It's showing them, "Here's how I can benefit you and how you're going to get the most out of me, based on my strength, and what I need to be able to execute at that level." It's all about how they're going to get the most out of you if they're willing to give you what you need.
Those are a few things. Back to that prioritization and back to that being comfortable with what your priorities are. Then, down to do you actually know how to execute to your strengths. Do you know what your strengths are? This is even outside the workplace, too. What are your strengths and what do you need to be able to perform at that level?
Then, the fifth thing is, do you know what your boss, or whomever, or your spouse, what they need to benefit? Do you know what it is? There's a whole lot of things there.
Naomi Nakamura: Yes. I actually got that advice from someone who was on my team 10 years ago. We both had this challenging manager. As a person, he was fantastic. Just in this manager role, there was just a lot of things going on that made the situation difficult. He told me and my colleague, my teammate had told me, "Well, the way I look at it is, what does he need for me to make him look good? If I can give him that, then, we're going to be okay."
It just wasn't someone who was necessarily looking to climb the ladder and having this ego and all these things that was just intact, things move really quickly, things can be politically charged. What does my manager need to reflect him, to make sure that it's not just he looking good, but the team is looking good as well?
Terri Quinn: That's right. That's absolutely right. Now, the area that you need to be really drawn about, I will say is, you're laying that all out, but knowing what the boundaries are. Know your priorities, know what is most important, those one or two things, make sure everything around you aligns to that. Then, two, how do you set those boundaries, so that as people try to encroach on your time or your energy, that you know when to say "no," because you're now impacting what my priorities are.
Naomi Nakamura: Well, you need to understand, first of all, what your boundaries are. I'll give an example of this. When I first joined our company, the particular group I joined was working very much in startup mode. In startup mode, there is not a lot of boundaries. The company's starting up. It's looking to survive. That meant, literally the first day I started at work, they walked me to my desk and there was a Blackberry sitting there waiting for me, phone number, live, charged up, ready to go, email set up, which meant, that communicated to me they expected me to be available at all times.
I was not used to that. My mental health could not take that. I had this debilitating anxiety for the first three to six months. I finally realized, because one of our directors stood and said in a meeting that she had emailed this other manager and he responded back right away, which then told her it was okay to email him over the weekend. I sat there in that meeting and this light bulb went off in my head. I thought, "I will check my emails. They come in the evenings and weekends, because that is expected of me; but, unless something is an emergency." We're talking really big emergency, because the kind of work that we do is, I mean, we're not working for world peace here, is important work, but it is not life or death. Unless it's at that level, I'm not going to respond because the minute you respond, you've broken that boundary and you've communicated that, "I am available. You can contact me at any time."
Terri Quinn: That's right. You've given them permission.
Naomi Nakamura: Yes.
Terri Quinn: You've given them the permission. What's interesting with that, too, in boundaries, and I have three children now. They're all early 20s. I tell them all the time is "Understand how much power you have. The word 'no' is amazingly powerful, even if you don't say it. Once you give that permission, once you turn that 'no' to a 'yes,' you may lose it forever while you're in that situation." Hold on to it tightly.
I'll give you an example back to that. For years, and even now, I say, "I will give my company so much for five days a week, but, for the weekend, you don't get me at all, unless I have to travel for an event or something. You don't get my weekend." I set that. Very rarely has any manager broken that rule.
Naomi Nakamura: Well, I don't think just your managers, your colleagues as well, because we all need that. If you hear from me on the weekend, it's for a personal discussion.
Terri Quinn: That's right. It's for fun stuff.
Naomi Nakamura: Usually, related to sports.
Terri Quinn: Yes, exactly. It's for fun stuff. You can expand this now outside of the workplace, too. I love using volunteer activities. You volunteer for an organization. I don't know many organizations that have too many volunteers or enough volunteers. Then, you get involved. Then, they ask you to take on something else or spend more time. They're inviting you and it feels really good, until all of a sudden you really hate doing the volunteer work because you have so much going on and you forgot to set the boundaries, that now, it's not enjoyable. It's stress inducing and it's anxiety. You just don't enjoy it anymore, because you forgot your priority and you didn't set the boundaries.
Volunteerism is a perfect place for that outside the workforce. It's setting what are you willing to do. Know that. Know that going in. It's been a shift. You and I would talk at least every three months, consciously evaluate your priorities, because they can change that often. Consciously evaluate your priorities. Then, take an honest step back and say, "Are your boundaries still supporting your priority?" It's tough when that answer is "no," because the easy answer is, "They demand so much of me," or, "I don't have the time," or I love this one, "I have to do this."
Oh, no. Oh, no. Because when you say, "I have to do this," you have now just handed that word "no" and that power over to them and given them permission to abuse you. It's not their fault they're abusing you. You're allowing it in the workplace, anyway. It's one of those constantly, I don't know, three months. I think if you go longer than three months, you lose sight because it's just a little step. It's just a little step. It's just a little step. All of a sudden, you're 90 degrees off center from how you want to live.
It's that conscious, conscious, conscious. Let's put it back on here. You started assessing again, that's a priority, getting up and running, except your tires are broke. At that point, that became a priority in the morning again. What had to change in order to enable that new priority? It's that conscious balance all the time.
Naomi Nakamura: Let's go through a couple of scenarios. How do you establish and maintain that boundaries, not just with your manager, not just with your colleagues, but maybe other groups that you're working with? Because we work cross functionally. I mean, basically, my whole job is to make cross functional teams work together. How do you establish those boundaries with these different audiences? For me, it comes down to being able to communicate and being able to say "no." Some people are not used to hearing "no." How do you manage those situations?
Terri Quinn: Let's walk through a few examples there. One, if you're not a people manager, then, I challenge you're focused on the success of a project, whatever it is you're working on. It could be anything. It could be just a daily routine, but you're focused on the success of something, not someone. When you get requests from peer groups or extended functional teams, the first question you have to ask yourself is, "If I spend my time with this group, does it make the initiative, the program, the project, whatever, is it going to help it to become successful?" Is there an overall plus going on?
If the answer is "yes," then you say, "How does it fit in with my time schedule?" Maybe, they want to meet with you at 1:00 and you're not available, and you say, "Well, I can't meet at 1:00, but I am available on Thursday at 12:00," or whatever the case may be. If the answer is, "No, this doesn't actually have anything to do with the success of my primary program or project," we get that all the time, then, you ask yourself the question. The answer isn't immediately "no," but you ask yourself the question, is what they're working on important and can my strengths help them? Is it just a good thing to do? Because at some point, we may be tied together.
Naomi Nakamura: Good corporate citizenship.
Terri Quinn: Yes, but the answer is not always "Yes." If you say "yes," again, you're giving people permission, to tell to your friend, to tell to your friend. There are times if you have the time, if you have the bandwidth, frankly, if you have a personal connection with that person. We know that's real. If you just like the person, you're going to say "yes."
If you don't like the person, you might say "no." Let's keep it real. We just know that. Look at those things, but I would challenge, don't ever let those side things take over more time than what you're doing working on your core project. You don't want to get into that 80% core 20% noise. You don't want that flip to be all of a sudden, "50% of my time is helping people with this distracting noise stuff. Therefore, I now don't have time for my primary projects. Therefore, now I have to work an extra two hours a day." It's back to that priorities and boundaries again.
Then, another thing I will say, and this is where I'm adamant because it's a pet peeve of mine. Anyone that tries to schedule a meeting with you in the same day, in my mind, it's an instant "no." It is a personal thing of mine, but if it's important enough for them to want to have a meeting with you, or with me, they need to give me time to prepare what the meeting is about, which means you need to give me more than two hours notice.
Naomi Nakamura: I'm going to say I do sometimes schedule same day meetings, but we have had a conversation about it first and I've had permission to schedule it or it's not this is the first time we're talking about this.
Terri Quinn: Yeah. The one when they schedule meetings without an agenda. Again, it's boundaries of, you think you have the right to take my time, but you're not even telling me what you want to talk about. How am I supposed to bring value to this conversation? Those are the easy "no's," until I know what it's about. Again, setting boundaries. You don't have access to my time until I give you permission to have access to my time. I'm setting those boundaries.
Naomi Nakamura: It is to say "no" on that meeting invite and give a reason why. It doesn't have to be a hard "no." It can be a "no for now."
Terri Quinn: Yeah. When I'm in a polite mood, I will respond and say, "No, I can't. If you'd let me know what this is about, one, I can prepare and also pull in other people that may be able to help you." That's the polite version. If they schedule something three hours and I don't even know this person and there's no agenda and it's like , "No, I am already triple-booked." Last week, I was whining, too. I'm like, "People set up these meetings for me in the exact same hour. I'm honestly not sure how they expect me to say 'yes' on this, because they can see my calendar." They know you already have five meetings booked at the exact same hour. Those are easy "no." No, sorry. I'm quite triple-booked.
The other "no" for me is when someone emails me and we've never had a communication before. I don't even know who they are and there's no introduction.
Here's a communication tip for you. If you have to email someone who you've had zero interaction with before, start your email with, "Hi, I'm Naomi. This is my role," which, hopefully, will explain why you're reaching out to that person. Say, "I'm reaching out to you because." Then, what is it you're asking for? Don't just send an email with the ask and provide zero context, because guess what? The answer is going to be "no." It's okay to say "no."
You put that into a verbal situation. Would you ever call someone up that you've never met before and say, "Hey, can you give me this data sheet or this information on this product, and can I get that in 10 minutes?" I mean, that is so socially unacceptable and it should be socially unacceptable.
Naomi Nakamura: It happens a lot. It happens so-
Terri Quinn: Many times, it's happening. In that verbal, you will at least say, "Hi, I'm Terri Quinn. I'm in this group and I'm hoping to ask a little bit of your time." You have to portray that in writing. Or, let's extend it outside the workplace again. You're either at a social event and there's people you don't know. It could be a school function. It could be something with your spouse. It could be the 49ers game. You're standing next to someone or whatever. Would you just look at them and say, "Hey, can you go grab me a hotdog?" Who are you?
No, you need to have that first cursory introduction. "Hi, great game," or whatever. Within the workplace, you're dealing with, again, it's all about the boundaries. The boundaries are tied to the prioritization, and the prioritization is how you live a healthy, happy life all around.
Naomi Nakamura: Yes. The way you put that into action is communicating with people.
Terri Quinn: Communicating.
Naomi Nakamura: Actually, speaking to them. I wanted to make one point about this only works if you're consistent. Because if you're not consistent, you're going to confuse people. We know, people push boundaries. Everyone wants what's in it for them. Everyone's selfish. I am selfish. You're selfish. The world is selfish. It's just human nature. Whatever inch you give, people are going to take.
If you are going to establish what your boundaries are, you better be consistent with it. If, for whatever reason, you're not, communicate that, "This is normally how I do things, but in this instance, I'm making this exception because … " You don't have to use those exact words, but for more or less, it is what it is.
Terri Quinn: It is. Again, back to that know what your boundaries should be. I'll give another example for all the working people here.
Someone asks you something and your natural inclination is to give them the answer, because they're asking you because they know you have the answer. Well, now they've done it five times. You know the answer is posted somewhere that they can actually go and get the answer themselves. We know how this is and we'll do it sometimes, too. I'll give that one person a break the first time and I'll give them a break the second time. When they come the third time, I will give them the link and I will say, "Go here first. If you ask me without going here first again, I am not going to respond to you."
Naomi Nakamura: It's called [crosstalk 00:40:05].
Terri Quinn: You need to do some of the work yourself. They'll come back and they'll laugh. They're like, "Yeah, I was being lazy." "Really, I hadn't noticed that." Yeah, I kind of do that, because the problem is if you don't set those boundaries, then, that person asks you, fine. Then, someone else asks them and, "Oh, go ask Naomi. Oh, go ask Naomi." All of a sudden, you've got 15 people coming to you for basic questions that you know they can find on their own.
Then, it becomes a huge boundary issue, because now everyone's coming to you because they're too lazy to click on a link. That's what they probably already have bookmarked. No. No, you've got to do some prep work first. Then, if you haven't found your answer, you can come to me. I am not your five-minute safe. You actually have to spend five minutes first. That's a huge boundary flip for people.
Naomi Nakamura: Well, also another boundary flip and you've put this on me before is, yes, things happen that suck that, maybe, we might not be happy about, but you give a grace period and you say, "You can complain about this for a month. You can complain about this for three months. You can complain about it for six months. Whatever the situation calls for. If you're not going to do something about it, you're not allowed to complain about it anymore.
Terri Quinn: Right. You become that constant complainer, because then it comes back, again, back to everything if you're complaining about the same situation, like something in your job or something about your manager. Whatever it is, it's that consistent complaint week after week, month after month. Yes, I give everyone three months. Then, I'll stop and I will say, "You've done nothing to change this. Do you really want change or you're complaining just because you want to complain? Again, either answer is fine, but if you want to complain just to complain, I am not the person you're going to complain to anymore. Find someone else. If you're looking to change, I am happy to assist you, but I am not your complaining board," because we all know we all get sucked in that, right?
You start the complaining. It's not a five-minute complaint. 45 minutes later, you feel ranting and you're still complaining. Right now, you're wasting that person's time. We've all been there, right?
Naomi Nakamura: Yes.
Terri Quinn: You see, you got to stop that. What I find, too, when you get stuck in that mode, you got to go back and say, "Do I know what my priorities are?" If your answer is, "Yes, I know," then, why are you tolerating this cycle that you're so unhappy about, because it doesn't match your priority, because if it's not your priority, you won't be complaining about it? It's that conscious, "Do I still know what my priorities are?" and, "Is this the rest of my life?"
I'm going to give you an example. You and I are not married? It's a funny example. I have enough people come to me about their spouses. Well, I'm divorced. I'm a failed marriage person. Yet, I get people all the time asking me for marriage advice. I kind of think it's funny. It's usually women. I'll say, "What's the most important thing?" Many times, "My husband, my wife," whatever. Okay. Then, I'll say, "What have you done today to make them know they are the most important thing in your world?" It's usually an awkward silence because the answer is nothing, because they didn't take the trash out, so I was mad at them with something.
It's, again, if they truly are your number one priority, and that's a beautiful thing if it is, you're in the minority, what are you doing in your life every single day to set those boundaries to make sure that spouse knows they are the number one thing in your world? Or, it's your pets, or whatever the case may be. It all falls in line. If you ever have that answer of, "I actually didn't do anything this week that he's my number one priority." Then, you know you're off kilter a little bit and it's time to pull it back together.
It usually means you've released the boundaries because they're taking up your time and your energy and your focus, and you've got to tighten up those boundaries again.
Naomi Nakamura: Well, what I was just going to say is by you saying, "You have three months," that's you establishing a boundary.
Terri Quinn: Yes, absolutely. I am happy to be the shoulder you cry on or you scream on, absolutely; but, if after three months, you're still crying and screaming about the exact same thing, no. It's time to kind of shock you a little bit and give you some hard knock love. It's happened to me before, too, Naomi. You've done that to me, too, and rightfully so. Sometimes you need to be knocked off that block.
Naomi Nakamura: Well, I hope people can see now why you are one of my most favorite managers that I have had. Wouldn't work for you again in a heartbeat, mostly. If this situation match my priorities.
Terri Quinn: Good one, yes.
Naomi Nakamura: Again, this goes back to having the right manager and that person who is on the same page with you, because if you have a manager who is not in this state of maturity the way you are, and I'm very fortunate that my last few managers and my current manager is, it makes for a very, very, very unhappy work situation. We spend the majority of our day at work, whether it be telecommuting or in a physical office.
If your work is not a place where you're happy and you want to be, say "goodbye" to a happy life.
Terri Quinn: You have to. You brought up a good point. I know we wrap up, but if you take the stance that today is your last day, there's 1000 songs that say that, but if today is your last day, are you happy? That's at the very basic core of it. Are you happy? If you're not, change something, because you deserve happiness, and you do only have that day, that one life. Yesterday is gone. You're not getting it back. Were you happy? Tomorrow is tomorrow. What can you do to make it happy? Every day gone is a day loss, so make it happy.
Naomi Nakamura: I always say that we can always make more money. There's always opportunities for that. We can never make more time.
Terri Quinn: That's right. That's right.
Naomi Nakamura: We have to make use of the time we have doing what makes us happy.
Terri Quinn: Yeah. Everyone has 24 hours. There is no one that has more than 24 hours. You all have it. Then, with that, and again, back to that boundary, I'm a big proponent of trashing the term, "Do your best at everything." You are incapable of doing your best at everything and you should never even say that to anyone. It's "Do your best at those things that are your highest priority." Those things that are not, give it a good effort, but save your energy, save your time, save your focus for those highest priority things. It is not do your best at everything. You will fail.
Naomi Nakamura: Yep.
Terri Quinn: That's just not appropriate.
Naomi Nakamura: It's like the whole multitasking that used to be such a thing that we all want in our resumes. I'm like, "Nobody wants to multitask. Nobody's good at it." You can do a lot of things, but you're probably not doing a lot of things well.
Terri Quinn: I know. Give me one hour to focus on one single thing, and it's magical.
Naomi Nakamura: Exactly. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I think people will get now why I really wanted you. You guys, for three years, these are the conversations we would have every single day.
Terri Quinn: Yeah.
Naomi Nakamura: It just needed to be shared with the world because I think they're so good, and I really grew as a person and as a worker, I guess, working for you. There you go.
Terri Quinn: It's good, likewise. I love you, Naomi.
Naomi Nakamura: Thank you for coming on.
Terri Quinn: Thanks, everybody. Have a great day, week, month. Happy life.
Naomi Nakamura is a Functional Nutrition Health Coach. She helps passionate, ambitious high-achievers who are being dragged down by fatigue, burnout, sugar cravings, poor sleep, unexplained weight issues, and hormonal challenges optimize health, find balance, and upgrade their energy so they can do big things in this world.
Through her weekly show, The Live FAB Live Podcast, programs, coaching, and services, she teaches women how to optimize their diet, support their gut health, reduce their toxic load, and improve their productivity, bringing work + wellness together.
Naomi resides in the San Francisco Bay Area and can often be found exploring the area with her puppy girl, Coco Pop!
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