Read the Episode Transcript...

Naomi Nakamura: It's the time of year where we're hopefully spending a lot more time outdoors and enjoying the sun. In this episode, which you guys, happens to be one of my all time favorites so far, kicks off a three part miniseries on how to have a safer summer. And we're kicking it off talking about safer summer skin care.

In this episode, I'm joined by a professional makeup artist and Med Spa esthetician, Genevieve Blair, who's known online as Genny B. Beauty. Genevieve has worked in the skin care and makeup world for the past 11 years doing laser skincare, bridal and event makeup, and making high performance product recommendations. It was about a year ago that she opted to switch to all non-toxic beauty and personal care products, which aligns to her clean lifestyle of better nutrition and cleaner living.

So you'll hear Genevieve and I talk about her experience as an esthetician and how she came to decide for herself to practice safer beauty. You'll hear her give some of her top tips that she has to practice safer skincare in the sun, and she also busts through a lot of common myths and misconceptions that we've all held for a long time about skincare.

Now as always, you can tune into the show notes for this episode at www.livefablife.com/o43 and there you'll see how to connect with Genevieve and tune into her brand now podcast, Rubble Heart Radio, and it's one you guys don't want to miss. So let's get to the show.

Genevieve, welcome to the show.

Genevieve B: Thank you.

Naomi Nakamura: I'm so excited this is happening.

Genevieve B: I know, I know. We've been talking back and forth for a while but we made it happen.

Naomi Nakamura: I know, so I have been wanting to do an episode on just safer summer skincare, and I have actually a whole series of different topics coming up. When I thought about who would be a great person to talk to about this, you were the first one that came to mind.

Genevieve B: Oh, thanks.

Naomi Nakamura: Not only are you an esthetician, but you are also a member of my beauty counter team, and so you are very well versed in the whole safer skincare world.

Genevieve B: Which is more rare than I like to admit.

Naomi Nakamura: That was something I did want to touch base with you on, but so tell us about yourself, and your background as an esthetician, and what brought you into the safer skincare world.

Genevieve B: Sure. Okay, so, I will try not to talk too long because this can be a lengthy story. So, I went to aesthetics school, I actually went to aesthetics school and I also went through electrolysis school, so I haven't really talked about that much. I know, electrolysis is like, it's like a losing art. It's just not around much anymore for good reason. Laser skincare is better and faster.

But I learned a lot about hair growth. And I spent about three or four months studying what places in our body have different hair growth types and things like that. But I went to aesthetics school, and in the state of Oregon. What's interesting about that, which is why I say this, is it's competency based.

So I didn't have to spend a certain amount of hours, I basically, as fast as I could test out was when that could be done. The reason why I talk about that is because I think that each state has a very different idea of what makes a person prepared to talk to someone about skin.

And most of my learning happened outside of school. So I went to school and came out and was like, now what? And I had my own facial room for a while, did the best I could to be educated on different products, but it really was a learning curve, and fortunately, about a year into it I had the opportunity to be trained in the Med Spa world. So I did laser skincare, hair removal, I assisted the doctor for injectables, we specialized in many different skincare lines, we were trained by their companies and things like that.

So I had an excellent education when I was in the Med Spa world. I learned a lot about different skin types. I had a chance to see hundreds of people and helping them with their skincare needs, and that's really where most of my education was from was just being out in the trenches, learning everything I could.

I remember a laser tech came out too, and she was a nurse from California who worked for this laser company, and she came and trained us, and I said okay, I was the lead tech at the time so I said, so those results I see on the wall in our office and in our pamphlets, I want to know how does one get those results. You know a lot of times you see a before and after of somebody, look better than you think that will ever be. And I said how do you get that? And she goes, honestly, it's because a doctor is treating them, and they're treating in certain parameters. And I went, okay. Tell me about that.

And it was very enlightening to learn that while we're being trained on certain things it was, sometimes you just have to ask a lot of questions to figure out where people are going to get the best results. My background is in Med Spa aesthetics and laser skincare but I am really a student of learning. I love to learn. I love to be out there and just figure out what's being talked about in the science community, it's always interesting to me, the body, anatomy, all those things. I thought for sure I'd go into the medical field when I was younger. But after learning about it I decided that was not the right way for me. There's just so much going on in the medical world that I'm just, man, hearts out to people in the medical world, it's a tough career to be in.

Naomi Nakamura: It is.

Genevieve B: Yeah, it's a tough place to be in and I think anybody even especially like an NTP can feel it, even if they're not in the traditional system. It's hard, let alone dealing with all the other junk that goes along with it, so I just decided that wasn't for me.

So for me the Med Spa world was where my love for education and learning, because I was able to learn and then do. And then learn and then do. And then implement and help people find the results they were looking for. So I did that for about five years, and it was just under five years, and when I had my son it was pretty apparent that he needed a little more full time care, because he had a lot of issues. He had surgery at three months, he had pilarextenosis, which is a problem with the bowel between his stomach and his intestines.

And then he started getting a lot of food allergies, and that can be a whole other episode. He ended up just needing a lot of my own personal care. He needed me to make him meals all day long sort of a thing, because we couldn't do conventional food so it became pretty apparent that I needed to step back and be full time mom. So I stepped back from Med Spa world which just tore me up because I loved that world and I loved helping people. I loved treating, all those things.

And so when I stepped back I decided to step into makeup, because I was already doing makeup application for fun, it was within my scope, and I loved it, I've always loved makeup. So, when I quit the Med Spa world I did makeup when the jobs came. So I did makeup here and there for, let's see, I did that for probably another seven years. Yeah, because my son's eight. Oh, gosh. When I do the math I'm like, whoa.

So I did makeup for about seven years, had my daughter in the meantime and just kept trucking along and I just really missed doing more work with people and talking to them and doing more day to day work because of some health problems my daughter has, it just wasn't in the cards for me to work full time or even part-time.

So my husband's a very supportive human being and we bought camera equipment and we bought lighting equipment and my safe haven became Genny B. Beauty, which is my vlogging channel where I talk about beauty products and I was very much in the conventional world and it made sense for me at the time because it was almost like therapy for me. It was my time to be alone, it was a creative outlet, it was something I loved doing, and it still helped me get makeup jobs as they came, so it just kind of made sense.

And about nine months into it, I started to get skin problems that I couldn't mitigate which was incredibly irritating. I had a little rash on my right side of my neck, it was probably about the size of a nickel at first. And over about three months of me trying to mitigate my symptoms, trying to do everything in my arsenal to figure out. I tried to mitigate it, or at least keep the symptoms down. I thought maybe it was because it was deep winter.

And eventually it grew. It grew almost to my jawline, almost all the way down to my decollete and it was this very frustrating thing, up to the point where water started to hurt and I was just like, what is happening?

And bless my mother-in-law, she is an encyclopedia of knowledge of all things nutrition, health, ingredients, and she told me, and she's very no nonsense. She told me, "Genevieve, your products are poisoning you" and I was not ready to hear it. I have a $2500 makeup kit, that I am just no intention of getting rid of.

And it kind of scared me. The whole thing was just like no, no I'm not ready. And I went on another month, and it just got worse. And I started to get one right underneath my eyebrows and on both sides, and finally decide, I'm thinking I knew better. I have to be allergic to some common ingredient. Maybe it's, maybe I need to filter my water better, maybe, I didn't know what it was.

So I got sick one weekend because it was February, and I was like okay, I'm just going to, I know my body well enough to need to take my time to get better, got on my computer, my husband took the kids which was so fantastic, and I started looking up common allergens for skin products and things like that in general. And I was very quickly horrified to find out that this is way bigger than just a common allergen that might be my problem.

This is a personal care industry problem. It's way bigger than just me. And as a professional, coming from that background and finding it on my own, not having my mother-in-law alert me to it but finding the information on my own through scientific studies, because I wanted to know the nitty gritty, loving education and loving to learn, it was like okay, I'm going to find everything I can so I can be educated and be ready to talk about it with people.

And I kind of just went crazy with it. As a professional it became difficult for me to forget about the years of talking to people about their personal care products and thinking that, and just the idea that maybe I was contributing to systemic health problems was just like not okay with me. I mean, let alone the heavy metal poisoning that can happen behind makeup and the things I was learning about that just absolutely blew my mind. And it threw me into this point of my life where I stopped everything.

Even with all my skin problems, I stopped washing my face I stopped wearing makeup. This was a brief time but still. I ended up flipping my hair over in the shower because I didn't want it to touch my body but I needed clean hair and I didn't know what to do. And I felt just so frozen in decision for probably about two or three weeks. It took me some time to digest the gravity of what I had learned and understanding that everything that I was putting on my children, that I was putting on me, that they could be contributing to eczema, it could be contributing to hormone problems which is my daughter.

But we can get into that later. She has a lot of issues that are very, all the same symptoms as type one diabetes, except for her blood glucose level, so type one. But she doesn't fit in a nice neat little box so her hormones heavily affect her body, deeply to a point where it's like we have to help regulate it with food and things like that. So between my sons autoimmune disease that he had been diagnosed with and my daughters inability to seem to really find normalcy within her body, it just horrified me.

And thinking about all the people out there and the cancer rates and all those things, I was not okay with that and I said okay, then I have to pivot my channel and as much as I want to shout this information from the rooftops and just be like, did you know this? If you knew this how come you didn't tell me? And most people don't so, it turned into okay, well I'm going to find the fun in. There has to be people out there that know this that are doing something about it.

And I pivoted my YouTube channel and decided I was going to talk about safer products and I just went on an absolute rampage. I set aside some money, I went everywhere in the boutiques, I live in Portland. So I went to all these boutiques in Portland, picked up every product I could find, tried to educate myself and it was exhausting. And trying to learn about each company, because there's no regulation, right?

So I was trying to find each company and decide was their policies right for me, did I feel that was safe, and then wanting to talk about it on my YouTube channel. I did that for about six weeks, spent about $1500, bought a lot, returned a lot. Because as a makeup artist I'm only keeping things that I think are worthwhile, right. And then I found Beautycounter. So interesting, I don't know if you've known this but I found Beautycounter from a hashtag on Instagram.

Naomi Nakamura: I found it from Instagram too.

Genevieve B: Oh cool, I love that. That's so cool.

Naomi Nakamura: I absolutely did. What I find fascinating about your story is that with all of your years in Med Spa working with doctors, this never came up as a concern.

Genevieve B: Not once. That was the part that frustrated me too was I was, I thought I was under guidance, thought I was under the best knowledge out there, I mean they have to do a lot of education, especially when they're doing something that's aesthetics, something that's about how people look. They do, I mean, to hand it to these doctors, they do a lot of education about how to use the products they have, but there was one company that the only time in my MedSpa experience that ever even kind of mentioned this, a company called Epionce, they're based out of Idaho and their whole basis behind their skincare line was inflammation is the basis of all skin problems.

And that was the first time I had been introduced to that and so they were the closest I'd ever come to barely understanding what that meant, but they were very much like, you know, a lot of our ingredients are organic but it doesn't mean anything, and I didn't understand what that meant at the time.

And so they said, we prefer to use organic ingredients but that's because of the anti-inflammatory properties of it. They were right on the cusp and I love a lot of the things that they do, but there's still so much that they were missing that I'm so grateful for companies that have better regulation within their own policies and it's less exhausting to shop with them, honestly.

Naomi Nakamura: Absolutely. I learned about this from my functional medicine doctor. I had no clue, I had felt like I addressed my diet, I addressed my stress levels, and I just was still having so much issues, and at the time I was having skin issues as well, like I had this rash all over my belly, and I didn't even connect it to all of the other things that were going on with me.

Genevieve B: Of course.

Naomi Nakamura: And when she told me about there were toxins in personal care products, not just beauty products but in your deodorant and in your toothpaste and in your shampoo and all of these other things, I literally came home and I threw out, I had five containers, because I was a MAC makeup addict.

Genevieve B: Oh girl, you are talking to the right person.

Naomi Nakamura: MAC and Smashbox. I used to go to Nordstrom would have these secret classes that they never advertised but they would bring in the artist and you could sign up and you were actually taken to a conference room in the back of the store where you would have a class with the makeup artist.

Genevieve B: What?

Naomi Nakamura: Yes. And my cousin and I would go to these classes all the time. So I had a sizable collection and I threw everything out, and I didn't know.

Genevieve B: That's painful.

Naomi Nakamura: It was. It was so painful and I didn't know what to use instead. So I remember asking friends who are makeup artists and they talked to me about a couple of other brands and I went try them, did not have good experiences, went to Sephora, asked about what's safer brands. They showed me things that were cruelty free, because they didn't understand what the difference was and what I was asking.

Genevieve B: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Or I would ask some really specific questions when I went on this journey because I even forget what they're called at this point, I was a Sephora Rouge, like the red member, like I'd spent enough money there. And same with Ulta, I totally get you. If I was near, or more near a MAC store I would have been all over that. I even had a box. I had three boxes when I went through this that was, I don't know what's in this, and I'm not ready to throw it away yet.

Naomi Nakamura: I did that too. I say I threw everything away but I kept my naked palette.

Genevieve B: Yes, I think there's just a little bit that you're like okay emotionally I'm not ready for that yet.

Naomi Nakamura: Yes.

Genevieve B: Yup, yup. And then I had the box of absolutely not, I know what's in this because I can read the ingredients and I've looked it up. I'm tossing it. And then I had the box of okay, I have to decide what I think about that one or two ingredients in here that I don't know enough about. I had the I need to research box, the gotta get rid of box, and then the not emotionally ready box.

Naomi Nakamura: I love that. Not emotionally ready. That was me.

Genevieve B: Yeah I guess it was. Yeah, it took time. And so those boxes sat around for a while and I remember it was probably, it was after I found Beautycounter because I needed to find something that would emotionally allow me to let go of that other stuff, but it still had things that I still love that work.

So when I got deeper into Beautycounter I think I was about two months into it, I finally threw it away. And my husband comes home and I told him, I was like, I threw away the box. And he goes, oh, did you have a vigil? Did you? Was it painful?

Naomi Nakamura: He understands.

Genevieve B: Yeah, he totally understood. So when I threw it away he was like, I mean he knew I was serious but he was really like okay, okay, full board now and I was like, there's no turning back now because I'm not digging through the garbage can. That is just no. I'm really grateful that I found Beautycounter the way I did though because I was looking. And interestingly enough I did put them down for a little while because they were direct sales.

And I said okay, when I found, I'll check out all the other stuff and if I still have money left in my budget I'll go and buy a couple things from Beautycounter just so I can talk about it. And I got to the end and I still had a decent amount of money left, I'm going to check out Beautycounter, and I was pleasantly surprised but the majority of the things that were in their line, and I was excited to be able to talk about skincare. Because I was looking for color cosmetics, because there are some DIY options that are great.

There are a lot of DIY recipes, there are some really simple skincare things you can find that can be effective for some people. So those people can do what they need to for skincare. But color cosmetics, is like its own issue of category. I mean, with the heavy metals and then the inactive ingredients. And then the packaging and all these things that I was learning.

You can't DIY color cosmetics like that. You just can't. And so I was like okay, I'm going to find, I'm going to find color cosmetics. And it was hard. It was hard. So I found some good things but I really love Beautycounter and I reach for Beautycounter because of their company policies in testing three times within the batch life, and the fact that I know that they're testing raw material which can be part of the problem. You can't rely on data coming from the manufacturer.

And then you know that they're testing upon formulation and then testing again on packaging and I just sometimes when you know too much you reach or what's being done properly. It's being done well.

Naomi Nakamura: Yes. I was the same way I searched for a year.

Genevieve B: Wow.

Naomi Nakamura: I was using, trying to do DIY stuff and got to the point where I was so frustrated because there was a gap with what you said and color cosmetics that I was this close to going back and getting MAC again. And I saw a photo of the charcoal bar on Instagram.

Genevieve B: Whoa.

Naomi Nakamura: And I had never heard of the company before but I clicked on it, because at the time charcoal was this newest craze, and that's how I found the company, and that's when I realized I finally found somebody that was talking about what I was looking for.

Genevieve B: Yes.

Naomi Nakamura: And I thought okay, at the time.

Genevieve B: This is a thing.

Naomi Nakamura: Yes. At the time I had just finished health coaching school, I myself was struggling with heavy metals, and I thought okay, this can be a resource that I can offer my clients. So I want to do this, but I don't want to get into the direct retail thing so I'm just going to sign up and I'm not going to talk to anybody and they'll just leave me alone and that will just be it. And boy was I wrong.

Genevieve B: Yup. And then you get into it and you fall in love with the company and the people and Gregg Renfew the CEO is just a powerhouse. All of the VP's that they've got there are just, I just honestly fell pretty hard for the people that are involved and the type of people that want to be involved and realized very quickly that I for the first time in my life feel like I found my tribe.

Which is interesting because there's not very many estheticians and makeup artists involved, there needs to be more, but just the kind of person, the constant need for learning and educating and bettering themselves I think is where my tribe is.

Naomi Nakamura: And I think uplifting each other. And I know some people are probably wondering well if you guys are on the same team, because I am not under you, you are not under a me.

Genevieve B: Yeah, we're lateral.

Naomi Nakamura: Yeah, as you go further up the line, we connect but we're not directly connected so someone might be wondering why are you having her on your podcast because I think, I don't know if this is unique to our team, I would like to say that it is, I don't know if it is or not, but I really feel like our team really focuses on collaboration vs. competition and we really do lift each other up and that is not just me saying it, it's the reality.

Genevieve B: Yeah. We follow it up with action, for sure. Between giving each other resources and saying hey I wrote this blog or here's this podcast you should have your clients listen to it, I mean, on most of my content that's the first thing I say is, if you have a consultant you're working with, check out their link, but if you don't you can check out my link. I mean that's just kind of how we operate because for us the mission is safer products in the hand of everyone is deeper than just words, it's the way we live.

Naomi Nakamura: Absolutely.

Genevieve B: It's been fantastic to feel like I finally have a tribe.

Naomi Nakamura: I hear you, I hear you. So we are at the time of the year where many of us hopefully are spending a lot of time outdoors.

Genevieve B: Oh yes.

Naomi Nakamura: Enjoying the sun, and there's a lot of more things to be concerned about when it comes to skincare during the summer.

Genevieve B: So true.

Naomi Nakamura: Do you have any tips for us on what things people can do to be safer during the summer?

Genevieve B: Yes, actually. Interestingly enough I think that there's a lot that you can gain by understanding yourself better, so I wanted to make sure people knew about what the Fitzpatrick Scale is. That's going to be my first tip, I think I have three that I want to give you guys.

The first one is the Fitzpatrick Scale. This takes zero to five stance and it shows you where your skin, where you personally lie in how your skin reacts to the sun, how it pigments. This was my gold standard in how I help people with laser skincare, so if someone was a certain skin type on the Fitzpatrick Scale, it allowed me to treat them a certain way, and it also helped me understand how they were going to react to products, how they were going to react in summer time to UV rays, all those things.

For instance, I'll tell you about mine. I'm the skin type three, but I border, I have a lot of four tendencies. Meaning I am a Caucasian woman, so I have more white skin, like in the winter I get really pale. But I also have this yellow undertone to me which is some of my Mediterranean heritage coming from my dad's side and then so I have a lot of olive skin tendencies so I think I'm a really light skin type four, meaning if I scar, I pigment, almost every time. Like if I get a breakout, I pigment like every time. And if I get out in the sun, I rarely burn. I do burn, but not very easily.

I could be out in the sun, like base tan is not really a thing for me. I'm the kind of person that I spend thirty minutes in the sun and I have a hard tan line. But skin type three is going to be somebody that burns a little more, they don't pigment as much, usually they're going to be, a skin type three is the most common in the United States. It's very European, that sort of a thing.

But knowing where you are on the Fitzpatrick Scale will let you decide how to treat your skin with SPF. So for instance, for me, I don't need a heavy SPF as much. I don't need to religious about reapplying every two hours to keep a burn away, that sort of a thing, or for instance let's say I'm working on my pigmentation. If I knew I needed to work on my pigmentation I would be more religious about using my SPF, reapplying every 80 minutes and making sure that I stayed out of the sun because I know that I pigment.

So as long as you understand where you are on that Fitzpatrick Scale, that's a fantastic way to go. And you can, there's a lot of resources out there to find a scale and then be able to take a quiz, things like that.

Naomi Nakamura: Okay, I was gonna ask, where would somebody find that, they can just Google that, and find it?

Genevieve B: Totally.

Naomi Nakamura: Okay.

Genevieve B: Yeah they can google Fitzpatrick Scale and it's spelled exactly how you'd expect it to be, Fitzpatrick. And you can take, there's lots of quizzes out there, because anybody in the professional skin world has that resource. That was the first thing I did on my intake form, that sort of a thing to help understand people.

So first tip, definitely check out your own Fitzpatrick Scale typing and figure out how you think your skin might react to the sun or to damage, because when you have a scar, you're going to pigment more on your scar than you will elsewhere. First tip.

Naomi Nakamura: It was really interesting I had never heard that but I have been getting a ton of questions and a ton of interest from women on discoloration and on getting rid of scars, so that is really interesting to hear.

Genevieve B: Yeah, yeah. Because there's a difference between if it's scar tissue. So if somebody's got acne and they've been dealing with it for a long time, and they've got little pock marks on their face but it's smooth, or it's not like super textured but it looks like they've got freckles, that's going to be a good indication that you're probably a skin type four, that sort of a thing.

Some people will still pigment but it's red. There's a difference between red and brown and it's like, until you've seen enough people to know you can tell, you know, so almost everyone's red until it totally heals, but for me I go from red to brown, every time.

Naomi Nakamura: I'm kind of the same way. I never really burn but I just get brown.

Genevieve B: Yeah you look like a skin type four to me, actually. Slightly yellow undertone.

Naomi Nakamura: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Genevieve B: But you get paler in the winter.

Naomi Nakamura: Yup.

Genevieve B: Summer, yeah that's me too. Skin type fours can also be tan year round, they just have darker skin in general but there's a range within there. That's my first tip for summer.

My second tip is actually kind of surprising for people but when they hear it they go oh, that makes sense. Be careful about how you wipe away your sweat. So when you start to get sweaty, and most people just wipe. That's when irritation occurs because there is salt in your sweat, right?

Naomi Nakamura: Right.

Genevieve B: And you're going to be more susceptible to irritation and your skincare environmental sensitivities, anything that makes your skin red is going to become more apparent if you're wiping away the sweat in that sort of manner. So for me, a lot of times it's just, just do your best to pat it away.

Or like when I'm done at the gym, I bring a Norwex cloth with me, and if I forget I use a paper towel but I don't love that method. It doesn't feel very good. But I take my Norwex cloth and I'll get it wet and I will pat my face and try to wipe it away and I don't worry about washing, because I'm trying to be really careful with my lipid barrier, my oil barrier on my skin because I'm super dry. So I can make that worse by wiping and using water on my face too much. But you also have to get the sweat away, so just be careful about how you swipe it off. Pat when necessary.

Naomi Nakamura: So what is a Norwex cloth, for those who don't know?

Genevieve B: Norwex Cloths, yes. Okay, so Norwex is another direct sales company but I'm not affiliated with them. I started using them because I was trying to find options for safer cleaning in my house. And this was before I got into those safer personal care products. The fabric is super interesting. They're woven in a way that, I don't even know how to explain it, you basically can take a loop and then twist it, but they're so tiny, and they're actually embedded with silver.

And so they've got antimicrobial factors to them, so that's why people, you might see videos out there if you look up Norwex on YouTube where they're wiping down the countertop that's had raw chicken on it, and they'll test it before for bacteria and then test it after and it will literally pick up all the bacteria. But the cool part is, is it picks up all the bacteria, it literally does I've seen it in many different, I've seen it in like a lab test too that they did. It will actually neutralize the bacteria because the silver embedded into the cloth.

So I use this cloth, and then you hang it up for 12 hours, so overnight, and it will sanitize itself because of the silver.

Naomi Nakamura: I need to get me one of those.

Genevieve B: Oh my gosh. Norwex. Okay, Norwex, yes. Honestly. They have body cloths that I love for my face because they're a little softer. They've got kitchen cloths that have a little bit rough texture to it. We use those. They've got a window cloth that I love because honestly my windows have never been shinier and squeakier, and my kids can do it because it's just water. I mean I'm still working on feeling comfortable with cleaning my toilet with it but I know a lot of people that do.

Naomi Nakamura: Cool.

Genevieve B: Yeah, and the cloths are great for the face because of the way they're woven. They're actually a great mechanical exfoliation, a very gentle mechanical exfoliation, so if you're wiping with it then you can give yourself a great exfoliating treatment from it so to speak, but it's mechanical in nature so we can get into that later if you want chemical and mechanical. But I love Norwex cloths. I love what they're trying to do. The cleaner products they predominately have cloths and things so, I also use their mops.

Naomi Nakamura: Interesting. But that's a really good point and thank you for sharing that about just the way you wipe away sweat.

Genevieve B: Sounds simple but it really makes a big difference in how your skin behaves throughout.

Naomi Nakamura: And that makes sense because I used to run long distance and when you're out running in the sun for hours, you really have to be careful about what clothing you're using, because you can chaff.

Genevieve B: Oh yeah.

Naomi Nakamura: And it really hurts your skin, so not the exact same thing but I can see parallels there.

Genevieve B: Similar. Most people don't notice that's what their issue is until they put product on their face and then they're like wow, my skin's way more sensitive, why am I so sensitive. Most people think oh it's because of the sun, and it's actually most likely from the sweat, that you're rubbing the salt on the face, you get those little micro tiny tears in the skin, so it just breaks down barrier that our skin needs for protection. So that's my number two.

My number three tip is again I think a duh, but kind of surprising a little bit is make sure you have a moisturizer that works for you specifically. For me, it's facial oil in the summer time. Which is interesting for me because I actually double moisturize in the heavy winter because I'm uber dry most of the time.

And in heavy winter I have to be really careful that I don't cause, if I don't properly moisturize, my skin actually is more sensitive to everything. But in the summer I can go down to just facial oil and I love it. It's got great moisturizing capabilities, anti-aging capabilities. It can also be a great way to carry essential oils if you're into that sort of thing.

So facial oils are the way to go. A cream is never bad, but I prefer facial oils. So I think that's my number three tip.

Naomi Nakamura: So funny you should say that because I'm going to admit something that I've never really told a lot of people. All of my life I have had excessively oily skin. And I never moisturize because of that. So the last thing I want to put on my face is more moisture when it's already oily.

Genevieve B: Yeah.

Naomi Nakamura: And it wasn't until I changed my diet that my complexion completely changed. And suddenly I had times during the year where I had dry skin and I'm like, I don't know how to treat this, I don't know what to do, I've never had combination skin before and it wasn't until a cousin of mine spent some time in Asia and she learned some ancient Chinese secrets. And she was the one that first introduced me to putting oil on your face as a moisturizer and I dabbled in that, even before Beautycounter. And I always thought it was weird that even though you have oily skin you should still moisturize and that putting an oil on your face can actually be beneficial.

Genevieve B: Right?

Naomi Nakamura: Can you speak a little bit to that?

Genevieve B: Yes, okay, so facial oils are some of my favorite things to talk about because it is so surprising to people. Because I think that, I don't know if it's the era that we grew up in or if it was just the 90s or what but most of my growing up, all I ever heard was Noxzema, Clean and Clear, acne care, you know you want to strip the oils away so you have this beautiful complexion.

Naomi Nakamura: Oxy-5.

Genevieve B: Oh gosh Oxy-5, there's a lot of them that I forgot about. Apricot Scrubs, I mean everything that we were using or that most people that were marketed to was to strip the oil, get rid of the oil. But a little bit of oil is a good thing. Oil's good. It protects our bodies from bacteria better. It's going to leave a more, there on purpose, you know? I get how it's not exactly the most aesthetically pleasing thing but there's things like translucent powders that are great for those areas.

If you find yourself with excessive oil, definitely try, excessive oil on your face, definitely try a facial oil. Because most likely what's happening, and I can say this because I have 80%, 85% that I saw, the mass majority of people that I saw that thought they were oily were actually just drying their face out and were causing more oil because they were saying to their body, okay, we need more oil, because we're stripping our body of that protective layer that our body needs, our skin needs.

And so the body says, more oil, we need more oil. So it becomes this cyclical, frustrating issue where we've got tons and tons of oil that we don't want, and then we strip it and then the body sends more, and so where honestly the body could be using that somewhere else in your body it doesn't need to be on the skin but the body's registering it as an emergency. So facial oil can be a great signal to your body that, it's okay, we don't need any more.

And it does take a little bit of time for your body to register that but not long, I mean I think it was probably two weeks tops, maybe a week that you can spend using facial oil and choosing a better cleanser for your skin that's not stripping. Which is a lot of facial cleansers out there can be very stripping.

So my favorite cleansers are the non-foaming ones honestly. I mean, there is a place for foaming cleansers, there really is, like if you've been working outside and you know you've got dirt on your face, or if you run long races and you know you've been exposed to many different environments, there's a time and a place, but daily, daily, man I'm all about gentle, non-foaming oil cleansers, milky cleansers, those are my jams.

So, if you find yourself oily definitely go down that route. Use the facial oil to signal to your body that you don't need more. You got it.

Naomi Nakamura: I have this huge smile on my face because I have not come around to the non-lather cleansing products yet. I try them and I'm like, I don't know, I don't know, let me go back to what I'm used to.

Genevieve B: It's a real mind game.

Naomi Nakamura: It is, it is a total mind game.

Genevieve B: Yeah because you think, you're used to that squeaky clean, and when you don't have the squeaky clean you think, my skins not clean. It does take time. You might really enjoy the Norwex cloth then because you can use something like a cleansing balm or even a milky cleanser and then still get a squeaky clean feeling without stripping your skin, with wiping with the Norwex cloth afterwards.

Naomi Nakamura: Okay, I would love for you to break down some myths that are out there about SPF and sunscreen.

Genevieve B: Oh, yes. I would love to.

Naomi Nakamura: So I'm going to read some myths to you that I have and then you can tell us if they're true or if they're not.

Genevieve B: Oh, okay. This feels like a game.

Naomi Nakamura: Okay so first myth. Most sun damage is caused by exposure during your childhood and teenage years.

Genevieve B: This one, this is a good one, because I think that it's really easy to look at our childhood and go, oh my gosh I never wore sunscreen, or I used baby oil, so that's where all my skin image is coming from. But actually it's an accumulation sort of a thing, and in an average person's lifetime it's only about 23% is coming from your exposure previous to 18 years and younger. And that's actually a stat coming from the Skin Cancer Foundation.

So while that number might fluctuate, that's still, it can't fluctuate that much, I mean if we know that, that shows us that we can stop what we're doing now and prevent a lot of harm for our future and it's not just null and void. So if you've never really worn SPF before, start now. You can totally start now and your future self with definitely thank you.

Naomi Nakamura: Which I didn't, honestly. I grew up in Hawaii and I had, you know, greasy skin, last thing you want to do is put sunscreen on.

Genevieve B: Oh yeah and then most of the sunscreens are super, super oily.

Naomi Nakamura: Yeah.

Genevieve B: Like really oily. Totally get that. I was kind of the same way. I never wore sunscreen. I never went out in the sun much when I was younger actually. My mother had a heat stroke when she was in high school and so she couldn't tolerate hot weather so my mom got creative and we did a lot of things it just wasn't outside, so I just didn't go outside much. Unfortunately.

Naomi Nakamura: I don't tolerate hot weather now.

Genevieve B: I understand.

Naomi Nakamura: Myth number two. If you have olive or darker skin or if you tan easily, you don't need sunscreen unless you plan to be outside for hours.

Genevieve B: This is another good one, because I don't burn, right. And I know there's a lot of people in that position. But what's interesting while you may not be susceptible to UV damage or more pigment, you still got the UVA damage that can be still developed through, well skin cancer can still be developed through.

And honestly, people with skin type four and up is like the olive tone through the darker range, they're at a higher risk for a deadlier kind of melanoma that's going to show up in the palm of your hands, your nail beds and the soles of your feet, which are not typical areas that people feel like they get much of a tan anyway.

So it just kind of goes to show you that you still need that protection even when you don't think you need it. So daily protection is ideal for all skin types.

Naomi Nakamura: Interesting. Very, very interesting. Okay myth number three. You can get sunburned through a car window.

Genevieve B: Oh, this is a good one because I get women that are like oh, I always get sun damage on my left side because I drive so much. This one's interesting to me because I still notice a lot of people with more sunspots or liver spots on their arms or on the left side of their neck, but interestingly enough, glass actually will block UVB rays.

So you won't burn while you're sitting in a car. But it still lets UVA through, so you still need broad spectrum sunscreens to protect yourself from skin cancer. While you may not be getting burn or a serious tan, you still have to be protected against the UVA rays.

Naomi Nakamura: So just to clarify for people who maybe not familiar with it. UVA are the aging rays.

Genevieve B: Yes.

Naomi Nakamura: And UVB are the burning rays.

Genevieve B: Yes. And the UVA rays, the thing about that, okay. This is where I always try to break it down for people. UV damage is usually like, they come hand in hand because usually you're going to get UVA and UVB but now that we found ourselves being protected with mostly UVB protection through our sunscreens and things like that, we're still finding that people are having breakdown of their skin with UVA, so they're still getting susceptible to things, and when your skin is breaking down it's going to be more susceptible when you're not having that UVB exposure.

So I tell people it's better to have a broad spectrum all the way around that covers both of the UV rays because even if you're not getting burned with the UVB coverage it's still important that you have both so that way your skin has it's resiliency.

So it still can fight those things for you and have better all around health so, that's usually what I tell people when they came in and they're like, I don't understand, why do I need broad spectrum or you know, cars, yeah that was another really big one because let's face it, we all commute a lot.

Naomi Nakamura: Which leads us into the next myth. All sunscreens are effective against damaging UVA and UVB.

Genevieve B: Yes, okay. So this one, okay, so. Only sunscreens that are labeled broad spectrum they'll protect against both. So you need to be able to, as much as we all don't want to have to read our labels, super closely all the time, there are some educational points that we all need to have to be able to make a good decision in our purchasing and it really needs to be broad spectrum. We're seeing UVA and UVB.

Because while the UVB ones are the ones that give you a sunburn, you still have the skin aging and both can give you a risk for skin cancer so it's important to know the difference, but you really need broad spectrum to be protected mostly. I won't say totally because it's difficult to tell someone that they're totally covered by a broad spectrum because there's so many factors to it but if you want the best chance definitely broad spectrum for both.

Naomi Nakamura: Okay, the next one, every sunscreen works the same way, so it really doesn't matter what one you use.

Genevieve B: Oh, this one always gets me. So what's interesting about this one, is this is where my non toxic background, like the non toxic educational side. You have two different kinds you've got a chemical sunscreen and you've got a physical sunscreen.

Naomi Nakamura: So what are the differences between them? Genevieve B: Right, so our chemical sunscreen, it works by absorbing damaging rays, but what's interesting about that is there really is no data on what's happening once it's absorbed, so we don't know what it's doing specifically so it may not be, they know that it's not going in and causing damage like it used to be but we don't know what's happening to those rays. I mean energy has to go somewhere right, we just don't know where it's going.

So you've got chemical sunscreens that are like avobenzone, oxybenzone, oxtinizate, they all kind of sound similar so, and actually they have to be listed in a certain way. So you'll be able to see where they are in the active ingredients. So the other active ingredients that you're going to find are physical sunscreens so zinc oxide, titanium oxide, then those are actual, the reason why they're called physical is they are psychosocial reflector.

You can think of it as an actual like, the white sheet, like reflecting the UV rays, and most people make fun of the zinc oxide one because you think of the lifeguard with a white nose. Well dang man, that guy had a protected white nose.

But, nobody wants to walk around with a white face and white nose, but what's interesting about the chemical sunscreens is the more I learned about chemical sunscreens, the more I'm not recommending them, and I'm recommending more psychical sunscreens due to the common endocrine de structures that they're finding in them.

I was reading as I was preparing for this I was reading a study done in 2012, in a scientific publication and I'll send that to you so you can put that in your notes if you'd like. It talks about, they were studying different chemical sunscreens and actual human bodies, which is really rare, usually they're seeing it in mice, animals of any kind, but this one was actually watching human interaction with it. And they were finding lower sperm count, lower testosterone, and they were actually the bulk of the article that they were able to link certain chemical sunscreens to endometriosis. Which I find fascinating and terrifying all at the same time.

More people need to know about this, I mean endometriosis is becoming more and more common and it's something that if we can understand it, then we should be taking about it more, you know what I mean? So for me, chemical sunscreens are just not worth it. I would rather use a physical sunscreen, so I use non nano zinc oxide on my kids, I use it on myself, and interestingly enough last spring I had gone to a Vegas resort, and we were there for about three days, and then I knew we were going to spend, and the weather was like not super sunny so we didn't spend a ton of time in the pool but we did a little bit.

But on the fourth day, I knew it was going to be really nice and we just wanted to just chill by the pool. And I realized that I had forgotten our sunscreen, and I said, okay I understand we really need the protection, this was the very beginning of my non toxic journey.

And I was like, I think the protection is going to be worth is in this instance, because we're from the Pacific Northwest, my kids don't have that pigment barrier that they normally have, so I went to the little shop downstairs and turned around all the bottles and read them all and decided the lesser of all the evils was the baby sunscreen because it had less parabens in it.

And I was like, okay, we're going to do this one, but really anything above SPF 30, this is another tip for SPF, is not that much more effective. It only goes up 2% between 30 and 50. And then you go from 50 to 100 and it only is like 1% difference.

Naomi Nakamura: So buying an SPF that has the super high number really doesn't mean anything.

Genevieve B: No.

Naomi Nakamura: It's really just the marketing thing.

Genevieve B: It's just higher chemicals.

Naomi Nakamura: Yeah.

Genevieve B: It doesn't give you as much protection.

Naomi Nakamura: That is definitely a myth that is out there.

Genevieve B: Yeah, for sure. That should have been its own separate myth but I, so for, when we, when I put the sunscreen on my daughter, we played in the pool, we had been there for three or four days, so it's been three days at that point, it was like she had normalized. And when my kids react to things it's usually within the first day or two so I thought okay, they're not reacting to the pool, we stayed at a place with a kitchen so I could control their diet as much as I could, so nothing had really changed too much from day three to day four except for the sunscreen.

And my daughter was potty training at the time and she had an accident after we'd gotten back. And the reaction of the pee on her skin, she got like a chemical burn. It was bad, all the way down where the pee touched her legs. And I was like, what just happened? It took me a second to realize what had been different and it's just interesting that it took another substance to cause a reaction on her skin, but it just shows how it breaks down the barrier of protection that our skin gives us, or how it can in some instances.

And that one was very immediate for me, so it's something I always like to tell people is that, if you pay attention to the reactions that you're having and then do the best you can to record or track back and go okay, what was different? Do your best to record those things and I was in a very similar situation as you where we had our diet under deep control because of my son's autoimmune disease. And we were still trying to figure out my daughter.

And we ate so, so clean. And so to eat so, so clean, and have no cleaning products in our house, and feel like we had everything under control and then have a personal care product cause that kind of reaction, it just solidified it for me. I had just found Beauty Counter when we had that trip and I didn't even have time to buy the sunscreen, when we found Beauty Counter and when we left, but I was like that's it. When we get back, I'm buying the Beauty Counter sunscreen, and that's where we're going to stay.

Because even if you find a sunscreen with physical blockers in it you still have to be careful with the inactive ingredients that's in it, and make sure that they're being responsible in their sourcing and their packaging.

Naomi Nakamura: So a couple of things that I just want to point out, because you just gave some really great information, was number one that happened with a baby sunscreen for kids.

Genevieve B: True.

Naomi Nakamura: Supposed to have been a little bit more gentle but still had the same reaction.

And number two when you talk about the damaging effects of chemical sunscreens, you talk about endocrine disruptors but in that study you read it also talked about low sperm count and testosterone. So we think of endocrine disruptors as something that women need to be concerned of but is absolutely not a gender problem because it is something that men need to be concerned about as well.

Genevieve B: Absolutely, I'm glad you pointed that out and that's why I wrote it down because that's such a true statement. Most studies that I see are in regards to women's health. You don't see it necessarily in men. So I think that's, and lower testosterone can effect women too. If you look at, I'd be interested to know more about the study and the deep recesses of what the information and what they found, like I think it's fantastic that it's being studied, it just needs to be talked about more, and I think there needs to be more responsibility behind what products are being put out there. This is why we're doing this, right?

Naomi Nakamura: That is why we're doing this. So I had a question from a listener, who you know is going to be talking to you.

Genevieve B: Okay.

Naomi Nakamura: Some people cannot tolerate zinc. So what do you recommend for those people in terms of sunscreen or even tinted moisturizers that do have zinc?

Genevieve B: Right, so I totally get that. There's going to be different sensitivities and things. I recently had been looking into things like raspberry seed oil and carrot seed oil, and people making their own at home sunscreen. Those are beneficial for when you're at home. There's also, you actually might be better at pronouncing this than me, there's supplements you can take to better prepare your body from the inside out. I don't think I can pronounce it, but maybe I'll get the info from somebody else and give it to you later.

It was, so for somebody that's sensitive to zinc, you can also look at titanium dioxide, but I also think you have to be really careful about the concentrations and make sure you do your research. I don't think you're going to find titanium dioxide on its own. For the most part it's going to be avoiding the sun from 10 AM to two, make sure you have hats, long sleeves on as best as you can when you know you're going to be.

I was so, so, so happy to see this the other day. Went to the pool with my kids, and it was opening day. You know, outdoor pool opening day. And I saw such a range of how people cared for themselves in the sun. And I saw some women with long sleeve shirts on to their wrists and hats. I saw a lot of hats, I was like yes. Okay, hats are great because it's another physical blocker, you're not exposing yourself to the rays. I mean you still have to worry about pool bouncing light back at you but it's a way better protection than nothing.

But carrot seed oil and raspberry seed oil actually have proven, especially raspberry seed oil, believe it or not, have been proven to protect even better than sunscreen sometimes, in short time frames without water involved. So if you're not going to get in the water, raspberry see oil is a great way to go.

Naomi Nakamura: Interesting. That is really good information, and funny you should say about bathing suits. I have been noticing in some Instagram pictures that there are swimsuits that are long sleeve for women and they look cute.

Genevieve B: Right, and you're like okay, I could try that.

Naomi Nakamura: Exactly. I was like, this is a thing now.

Genevieve B: Yeah, I think that's a great way to go. And I saw a lot of babies in long sleeve shirts and hats, and it just makes my heart happy that people feel comfortable to do what they think is best for them and their family. While my kids wore the sunscreen, maybe this woman doesn't feel comfortable because she doesn't have, been able to do the research, she wants to feel comfortable with it so she's getting the UVA, UVB clothing, the UV protection clothing. That's cool. I think that's great.

Naomi Nakamura: So why don't we wrap up with the most common question that I get about this.

Genevieve B: Okay.

Naomi Nakamura: So, for the ladies. What order do you put your sunscreen on when you're putting on your face in the morning?

Genevieve B: Yes, yes. Okay, that is a common question. Honestly, SPF needs to go last. You can think of it as your sealant. So if let's say you've got a tinted cream that's got SPF in it, it needs to be last if you want the best protection.

So while some people will put eye cream on, and then as long as you're not layering it funny, like you don't put your eye cream on way down to below your cheekbones and things like that, you can definitely make sure you've got the different zones figured out, but truthfully anything with SPF if you want the best protection needs to be last. So cleanse, treat, moisturize, SPF.

Naomi Nakamura: So also if I'm putting on foundation, then I put my tinted moisturizer on after that?

Genevieve B: Actually, mix it in.

Naomi Nakamura: Oh, okay.

Genevieve B: Believe it or not, mix it in is my favorite way to do it because it avoids a step, and then you don't have to worry about the foundation moving. I blend tint skin and dew skin together, when I want the SPF factor. Plus the texture is beautiful, I think. Because tint skin is meant to be a foundation right? But it's a very satin finish. And then you've got dew skin is very dewy, right? Well the combination of the two I think makes for such a beautiful, glowy, summer time, I just love it. It's honestly my favorite way to go in the summer time.

And then I'll take some areas I don't want to be too shiny, so I'll take the translucent powder and pat it under my eyes, and maybe right between my brow because I get a little shiny there anyways, so, SPF mix it in your foundation. If your SPF is zinc oxide and it's uber super duper white, get a slightly darker foundation that you can basically when you mix the zinc and your normal foundation, you can take couple drops of the darker one, and even it out a little bit. That's what I do, anyway.

Naomi Nakamura: I have never tried that before. I am going to the city.

Genevieve B: Yeah, brides need it.

Naomi Nakamura: Yeah, oh good point. I'm going to the city tomorrow night so I'm going to have to put on makeup tomorrow. It doesn't happen every day but it's happening tomorrow, so I'm going to try that. I'm going to take a picture and send it to you.

Genevieve B: Oh yeah, please do. Yeah take a picture. Put it on your Instagram and then tag me in it.

Naomi Nakamura: I will.

Genevieve B: So that people can see it.

Naomi Nakamura: I will. So are you a Questioner?

Genevieve B: I am actually an Obliger, hardcore.

Naomi Nakamura: Oh, I for sure thought you were a Questioner because I am.

Genevieve B: Me too.

Naomi Nakamura: And I am the person who has to go find out all these facts.

Genevieve B: I know.

Naomi Nakamura: Why?

Genevieve B: I honestly think, well you know it's interesting I'm actually an Obliger that kind of leads towards Upholder because I love structure, I love rules, I love having, if any indication, being prepared for this might have showed you that I lean towards Upholder a little bit. But my husband's a Questioner, my dad's a Questioner, my brothers are Questioners, I'm like surrounded by Questioners.

Naomi Nakamura: So you're used to it.

Genevieve B: I don't know if it's, yeah, I don't know if it's since I've seen the benefits of your research or what. And my mom's a hardcore Rebel, so I'm like the only obliger in this group. So it's funny you say that, because I thought for sure I was a questioner until I did the actual quiz and I realized actually I'm much more motivated by other people than I am by myself. Interestingly enough.

Naomi Nakamura: Well the reason I ask that is that a lot of people might feel totally overwhelmed after listening to this and think they need to go do all this research. And this episode was not meant to be all about Beauty Counter, but honestly, that is why.

Genevieve B: It's our solution.

Naomi Nakamura: Yes, it is the solution so you don't need to do that. And we have so many educational materials and we talked about the apprehensions we've had about direct retail, the business model. But that is why that business model was chosen is that you have a resource to help you understand these things.

Genevieve B: Yeah and the beauty is you can just buy. You don't have to sign up. We just couldn't help it.

Naomi Nakamura: Yeah, we just couldn't help it, but you know it's a brand that has established its integrity and it's trust.

Genevieve B: Yes.

Naomi Nakamura: And so know that when you use products that either from this brand or other complimentary products that are endorsed by it, know that the safety has been tested, many times.

Genevieve B: Yes.

Naomi Nakamura: So if you are not someone who goes and does all of the deep research that we have done, or that it's just, it feels overwhelming, this makes it easy.

Genevieve B: Yeah, and that's where my moms at. My mom was diagnosed with Hashimoto's last spring. I was brand new to Beautycounter. And one of the first things that she was told from her naturopath was you need to detox your products right now. And I was like, wait I got this. Like, I can do this. And so we went through her products and she's like, I could never had done this without your help.

And I was just like, man, how many people are going through that? Where they don't have someone in their life that can go through and say, yeah you're going to do this and not that and this and you should try this if you want to replace that.

And it's like man, truthfully that's why I think Beautycounter is so beautiful is that there's consultants like us that can do that for people. And I think people need to be able to have a resource to trust of how do I detox things. Because I do have a lot of recommendations for things outside of Beautycounter, it's just SPF is hard.

It's in hard to find things with our color cosmetics, but have some SPF factor to it. I found some beautiful products for color cosmetics that I could easily recommend. And I have found some SPF products that are okay, but the performance just isn't the same. You know what I mean? It's just not.

Naomi Nakamura: And that's where you don't have to sacrifice safety over performance.

Genevieve B: Right. Like I love Badger as a brand for SPF.

Naomi Nakamura: Yeah, I use that one too. Before Counter Sun came out.

Genevieve B: Yeah, exactly. The hardest part about Badger for me was how thick it was, because it was just so thick. And when we were in Vegas, after my daughter had her reaction, my answer was, I got an Uber, and I went to Whole Foods down in Vegas and solely for the purpose of going there to get some Badger sunscreen.

Naomi Nakamura: It's what I used when I was long distance running outside. When I finally got to the point where I'm like okay, I do need to use sunscreen because I'm spending hours every week in the sun running that I need to do something here.

Genevieve B: Right.

Naomi Nakamura: And that's what I used until I found Beautycounter and started using their products.

Genevieve B: There is one product I love to recommend to people if they're in that position like I was in and they're like I don't know where to go. Badger has a tinted SPF that's actually got a little bit of pink to it, which really brings down the ghost. It makes it way less fluorescent. And so I appreciated the pink tint in there and it was, I want to say it was a kid product. That it was a Badger kid product. It was tinted, so I want people to have those kind of resources.

You can also do carrot seed oil. Oh, I should say if you're doing the raspberry or carrot seed oil, make sure you give it proper time to soak in. So don't put it on and then go right outside. Put it on if you know you're going to go out that day. And put it on, let it soak in and then it will do a better job.

Anyway so I think I just wanted people to have those kind of resources available too, because as much as we love Beauty Counter it's just sometimes you have to purchase something quick or easy or sometimes you just need to grab it while you're out, so I totally get that too.

Naomi Nakamura: Well how can people reach out to you and connect with you and learn more? I know you guys just launched your brand new podcast.

Genevieve B: Yes.

Naomi Nakamura: So tell people about that, and you have your YouTube channel and you're on Instagram, so how can people connect with you?

Genevieve B: Yeah, the Rebel Heart Radio podcast, so you can find me and Cassie Kanable, we started Rebel Heart Radio, we launched, has it been two weeks now? I think it's been two weeks. We just launched so we're still kind of baby style. Naomi's all like seasoned now, and I'm like airing it out. We're working on it. So Rebel Heart Radio, definitely check us out. We're more of a lifestyle podcast, we talk similar things we talk about on this podcast too but we also tend to joke around a lot. Cassie and I like each other, so.

So we have a lot of fun on that podcast. You can check us out there, on Instagram or iTunes or on Stitcher, that's where we're at right now. Or on our website, you can check us out. Or on SoundCloud, you can check us out on SoundCloud.

But me personally I'm Genny B. Beauty, with a G. And you can find me on Instagram, I have a website, my YouTube channel, and my YouTube channel has definitely taken a hit since starting the podcast but I've got some content on there. You can check out, if you want some tutorials, I'm really active on my Instagram stories and on Instagram so that's probably the best place to check me out at Genny B. Beauty.

Naomi Nakamura: Cool and I will link to all of those things in my show notes.

Genevieve B: Thank you.

Naomi Nakamura: So thank you so much for taking the time out.

Genevieve B: You're welcome.

Naomi Nakamura: This was so fun.

Genevieve B: My pleasure.

Naomi Nakamura: I am so excited when I interview somebody who also has their own podcast.

Genevieve B: It's fun. You can commiserate.

Naomi Nakamura: You also know. You know how it goes.

Genevieve B: I know, I do. I really do, like truthfully, I'm so grateful my mom took my daughter to the music store because otherwise I would have been interrupted a lot.

Naomi Nakamura: Well we were still interrupted a lot, let's be honest. My groceries just got delivered.

Genevieve B: Oh man. And I had a garage door open for a little while and that was not good and we get it though.

Naomi Nakamura: Well thank you so much for being here.

Genevieve B: Thank you so much for having me, this was fantastic.