Read the Episode Transcript...

Naomi Nakamura: Hello my friends and welcome back to The Live FAB Life Podcast. I'm your host Naomi Nakamura. And joining me in this episode is returning guests and my good friend Jenny Castaneda. Jenny is a cookbook author and a blogger and she was recently on this show about six months ago in episode 98 talking about her latest book, Easy Keto Meal Prep. But what you may not know about Jenny is that she has a full time job and the tech industry. She's a woman in tech and she's been working in the IT industry for the past 20 years, much like I have. So we bond about a lot of different things.

And so in this episode, Jenny very openly shares with us about her recent struggles with stress and anxiety and you will hear her share some of the, not just mental and emotional symptoms that manifested but also the physical ones, ones that you may not necessarily tie to stress and anxiety. And she shares with us the journey of the different steps that she had to take to be able to make those connections and what she does now and how she manages the symptoms and what helps her get through it on a day to day basis.

I really appreciate her openness and candidness in sharing this because they know as the topic that not very many are open to sharing, but it's also something that I think a lot of people find strength in hearing how other people have dealt with it. And it's really interesting, I consider this synchronicity because we planted do this episode long ago. We ended up recording it while we were in a shelter in place, while this whole world is dealing with this global pandemic. And so I think this is something that is very timely because they know a lot of us are dealing with a lot of fear and uncertainty, which is definitely causing anxiousness and anxiety. So I hope you find some of the things that we talk about in this episode helpful to you. So with that, let's get to the show.

Jenny, welcome back to the show.

Jenny Castaneda: Thank you so much for having me back here.

Naomi Nakamura: So I was looking at the calendar and it has been six months since you were on.

Jenny Castaneda: Wow. It's been that long?

Naomi Nakamura: It has. You were last on, I don't remember what episode number it was, but I will link to it in the show notes. But you were talking about your new book that came out, I think it was like last September. And at time we were talking about it because I'm a woman in tech and you actually also have a full time job in tech and we thought, "You know what, it'd be really nice to have a conversation talking about some of the things we go through." And it's taken us like six months to make it happen. But we're all sheltering in place right now, so we kind of have the time.

Jenny Castaneda: And it's nice to see you talk to you because I've been going crazy talking to Mochi, talking to Will and Diego.

Naomi Nakamura: And I've been talking to my dog. That's it. So for those who may not have listened to our last episode, can you just share with us who you are, what it is that you do?

Jenny Castaneda: Hi, my name is Jenny. You can find me at @cookandsavor on Instagram. So I'm primarily a blogger, a cookbook author of two books now One-Pot Paleo in Easy Keto Meal Prep, which is the one that we talked about earlier with Naomi on a previous podcast. I'm also a Beautycounter consultant and I've been in the IT industry for 20 years now, so this year is my 20th year.

Naomi Nakamura: So let's talk about that. So you have your full time job in the IT industry. You are an influencer and recipe creator and developer who has published books. You continually blog, which is the less clarify for people writing a cookbook and writing blog posts regularly are two very different things.

Jenny Castaneda: Yes.

Naomi Nakamura: I mean with your cookbook you had a publisher and everything. So, and in addition to that you're also a Director with Beautycounter, which means that it is a significant part of your life. You put effort towards that happening. And then you have a family of your husband and you have Diego. So talk to me about that.

Jenny Castaneda: Well, I mean it's all about prioritizing. I'm an enneagram three. I'm sure you've taken the test too. I know you're an enneagram one. I like keeping myself busy. I like to be productive and I like to do things every time I find time to do something so my side hustles are usually done during the weekend, or sometimes I do them when I get home. Just as a way to distract myself from the grind of the day job because my day job isn't really a walk in the park. It's very stressful. There's a lot of moving parts. I handle a lot of people.

Naomi Nakamura: You are a people manager as well.

Jenny Castaneda: Yes. So I'm a manager in the IT industry. And blogging and creating recipes and talking about Beauty Counter and safer skincare is my downtime. So it's a way for me to relax, it's a way for me to decompress, it's a way for me to really enjoy. So I know most people have hobbies that they do during their free time, but for me, I'm like, "Okay, I want to be productive. I want to do something, I want to create, I want to make money."

Naomi Nakamura: You're like, that is your hobby. That's my hobby too.

Jenny Castaneda: That is my hobby. Making money is my hobby too.

Naomi Nakamura: And there's nothing wrong with that at all.

Jenny Castaneda: Nope.

Naomi Nakamura: So you have been pretty open on your Instagram. Oh, and by the way, also showing up consistently on Instagram and creating content for that is, I mean for some people that's their full time job. So that takes a lot of brain space and energy and effort going into that as well. So you have been pretty open on your Instagram recently, how stress and anxiety has been impacting your health. So, can you share more about that with us?

Jenny Castaneda: I've always had anxiety, I think as far as, I think 2013. So I've had episodes of anxiety back then, but they were pretty mild. They happened for about an hour or so and then they go away. But last year, the first really major anxiety attack I've had was around June. So late June was pretty crazy because I wasn't really thinking that that's a symptom of anxiety. So I was getting back pain, neck pain, headaches, and I was very lightheaded, I was nausea. So I was like, "I don't know what's going on." So I'm thinking I was just stressed at work.

Naomi Nakamura: Sounds like a lot of tension.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah. So a lot of tension. So I don't really know what's going on because I didn't really change anything, but it was too late for me to recognize the symptoms of anxiety because I never really suffered from it. And then I went to my primary care physician, I even went to urgent care. They did all the blood work, the tests and everything, and they were like, "We can't find anything. There's nothing wrong with you. So maybe you're just dehydrated. Maybe you should see a therapist."

Naomi Nakamura: Why did they recommend a therapist?

Jenny Castaneda: They couldn't find anything wrong and they think that it's mental. So a part of me thought that it was mental too, because I was having feelings I've never had before. So I was like, "Okay, maybe I'll take a look at this." I did some Googling, I did some research. I talked to a few people. I posted about it on my stories. I thought I was having some vertigo. Apparently it wasn't vertigo. My doctor gave me some medication just to say, "Hey, okay, here's some meds. Go away." And I went to a chiropractor, which the chiropractor helped.

Naomi Nakamura: What made you go to a chiropractor?

Jenny Castaneda: I've been going to a chiropractor before every time I had neck pain and back pain, because I used to injure myself working out. So I would go to a chiropractor, but I thought about it and said, "Hey, what if, you know what if I go to him and see what he can do for me?" I did about three back to back sessions in a weekend. It helped, so I found some relief, but I had to stay home and still try to figure out what's going on with me. I did a lot of Googling and research.

Naomi Nakamura: It's interesting because I think when we hear that someone has anxiety or they're anxious, we think about how we feel emotionally when those things come up, like I get a feeling of nervousness and almost a feeling of panic and that's kind of how I know that I have anxiety. It's this total feeling of a lack of control, which ironically or not, ironically, maybe like this is just tiny. This is, at the time of us recording this, we are sheltering in place and so I know that a lot of people are feeling this way right now.

Naomi Nakamura: But it's interesting because these things showed up physically for you. I think most of us don't necessarily recognize that when these aches and pains show up and maybe people might be feeling that right now as well, given that we're all having these feelings of anxiety and anxiousness. It's interesting that it showed up physically for you that way.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, I was surprised. I thought it was just, I don't know, tired or stress. I know when I'm stressed I can feel it physically, but I never really connected having stress with anxiety.

Naomi Nakamura: Was that when you were like in the depths of writing or editing your book too?

Jenny Castaneda: No, it was June, so I don't know, maybe because there was a lot of changes for me. I mean, last year I got married, we moved in together and then there was a lot of adjustments and I had some more responsibilities at work. So I think they just really piled on top of each other and I felt overwhelmed, but I'm used to being overworked and overwhelmed. But this was a little bit different, so I didn't realize that it was hurting me.

Naomi Nakamura: Oh, I can totally relate to that. Yeah. And it probably doesn't show up until after you were in the crunch of everything, right? It's like, it shows up afterwards.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, it shows us afterwards and it's like, "Uh oh, it's too late."

Naomi Nakamura: So you saw your chiropractor and then it helped a little bit. And so what happened after that?

Jenny Castaneda: So it helped a little bit and then I started thinking, "Okay, I need to create a routine for myself." Because I would have anxiety right when I wake up, like the second I opened my eyes and realize I'm awake, I feel anxiety. I feel nervous, my heart is beating really fast, so I'm like, "Okay, I need to do something relaxing."

Naomi Nakamura: Where are you sleeping?

Jenny Castaneda: Well, yeah, I sleep. Well here's I did thing, I sleep like a baby.

Naomi Nakamura: You're so lucky.

Jenny Castaneda: That's one good thing about me is I sleep really well so I would wake up and like, "Okay, I need to have structure." So having structure gives me control. Even though anxiety makes you feel like are out of control.

Naomi Nakamura: No, that makes sense.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah. So I started doing my daily meditation. I used this app called Calm and they have a daily meditation guide, so I have a one minute I think daily grace that I got from CVS when I was picking up some medication not related to this one and that one helps me, I feel calmer reading that.

Naomi Nakamura: It's really interesting because I mean our personalities are very much the same. I think we're both very driven. And so slowing down and inviting more stillness and quietness is something that does not come naturally for me. Ironically I have to make it as a to do item on my to do list for it to actually happen.

Jenny Castaneda: To relax.

Naomi Nakamura: Yes, exactly. When I do it, it really, really helps me. I feel this physical release of like tension and then it relaxes my mind as well. And the past three weeks I've been going to a Monday night grounding meditation circle on Zoom and going there has helped me realize I was holding onto tension that I didn't realize I was holding onto. Have you had that same experience with meditating?

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, I do. I mean I do feel that like when I try to relax, I feel my body, because I do the meditation where it's more of a body scan. They said, "Okay, relax your forehead, relax your ear."

Naomi Nakamura: Yes.

Jenny Castaneda: And I was like, "Oh, I didn't know I was tightening up my ears."

Naomi Nakamura: Exactly. Or when they're like, "Relax your tongue."

And you're like, "Oh, I had tension in my tongue."

Jenny Castaneda: Your jaw or your eyebrows. So they just go through every part of you where you hold tension, you realize, "Oh, that's where I'm holding it."

Naomi Nakamura: And so you start your day everyday with that?

Jenny Castaneda: Yes. I start my day everyday with that. It takes about 10 minutes and I drink some warm water while I do my meditation. I read online that it's good for the body it just jumps starts to metabolism and digestion. And it's easier to drink warm water versus cold water or tap water in the morning.

Naomi Nakamura: Oh, so you drink it while you're meditating?

Jenny Castaneda: Yes.

Naomi Nakamura: Oh, I might have to try that. I haven't tried that one before.

Jenny Castaneda: It's very relaxing.

Naomi Nakamura: Good to know. So I used to, well I don't use to, when I remember to, I start my day with lemon water and or apple cider vinegar, lemon water and a little bit of cayenne just for gut health. But my thing was is that we've always been taught to make sure it's warm water. And I'm like, well I only know ice water. So I would pour the glass of water overnight and leave it out so that when I wake up I remember to do it and then it's already warm.

Jenny Castaneda: I microwave it for 30 seconds.

Naomi Nakamura: Okay, good to know. Good to know. What else does your structure look like?

Jenny Castaneda: So I also add acupuncture in addition to everything that I'm doing for myself. So acupuncture has really helped me a lot. Before we were sheltered in place, I went to get my acupuncture done about every week. I would go every Wednesday night or Friday night. The first time, oh sorry, the second time I had my anxiety attack was I think January this year. So mid-January to late January was really tough for me.

Naomi Nakamura: Great. What did an anxiety attack look like for you?

Jenny Castaneda: Again, I get my neck pain. I get my shoulder pain. So the same pain I was feeling from the first time came back. So I was feeling lightheaded. I thought I was low blood sugar.

Naomi Nakamura: Okay so, it was a physical response and not like this emotional breakdown.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, so it's a combination of both. So it's stronger physically, it feels like, "Oh my God, I'm going to pass out." That's my first thought, like, "I'm going to pass out. I haven't eaten." So I asked my doctor to give me those home kits to test your glucose. So I was testing like seven times a day to make sure, "Okay, how's my blood sugar?" Everything was fine. So I'm like, "Okay, it's just me." And it's after that it was more mental because my thought process was like, "Oh my God, I'm going to die. Oh my God, I'm going to die."

Naomi Nakamura: Which then, adds to your anxiety. Well, first of all, when your doctor's telling you nothing's wrong with you, but you have these physical symptoms that makes you anxious. And then also just the not knowing adds to the anxiety. It's like this like never ending cycle that you're in, this vicious circle.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah. And at that point my mind was stronger. You know that, "Okay, there's really nothing wrong." But I started feeling doom and I started thinking about what ifs. And they started thinking about scenarios that I know do not exist.

So I got this book called Dare. I'm going to give you some details about it later. So the book is a little bit different. It has a counter intuitive approach because some anxiety books would say, "Oh you need to meditate, you need to breathe, you need to relax."

This one is more like, "You need to embrace anxiety. You need to look at it straight in the face and say, 'Bring it on.'"

Naomi Nakamura: Which I think is a better approach for the personality of you and I. For some other people, the more traditional approach works great for them.

Jenny Castaneda: The traditional work sometimes, it depends. It's good in the morning, but if you're really faced with fear and anxiety, you need to really embrace it, which is hard.

Naomi Nakamura: And let yourself feel it. It's like what people are saying now like, "Let yourself feel the feels."

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah. Because that happens to me at work. There was one time earlier this year, I was in a meeting with like 30 people and I was shaking with anxiety. I was looking at my Apple watch and I was like, "Oh my God, my heart rate is 110." And I'm just sitting there doing nothing and listening. I was having an anxiety attack.

So I told myself, "Okay, bring it on. I got this. Is this what you got? I'm not going to die from this." So like psyching myself up like that kind of brought down the anxiety and I was like, "Oh wait. Whoa, it's going away." But it's hard to do that because you're very vulnerable at that point where okay, you're scared, you're panicking. And to be able to say that to what you're feeling it's very hard.

Naomi Nakamura: So do you think it's related to work if you're feeling it at work?

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, for sure. It was triggered by work because I know I get really stressed at work sometimes I'm just like, "Okay, it's fine." I keep brushing it off, but sometimes it really affects me if I don't do anything to release the stress, if I don't work out, if I don't do yoga, it just builds up inside me and then it becomes too late and it turns into anxiety.

Naomi Nakamura: I know a lot of people feel this in whatever type of work that they do, but as someone who also works in tech, I think more people feel it than we all realize now.

I've been working at home full time for eight years, but when I was going into the office, I would feel the same things that you would feel like. I would literally be sitting at my cubicle and I would be feeling this anxiousness and this anger and even this depressive or this like depressive state and I would remember like instant messaging my coworker who sat on the other side of the building and telling her that like, I feel this way. "I don't feel like this is me. I feel like I'm outside of my body looking at somebody else who's not me." And I know that it was all work-related and it's not like people were mean to me at work or it's not like that I was, I don't want to say that I wasn't overworked, but I think it's just the whole fast paced nature and the high level of expectation that that's just the nature of the industry. Right or wrong, but it is what it is.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah. I mean in IT are like, "Oh my God, this software is broken." You've got to fix it. Because people can't use it. "Oh my God, there's this problem." So there's always a constant need to keep working, so you never get a break. You're always on the go. You're always like, "Okay, what's the next problem? What's the next project?"

Naomi Nakamura: And while we thrive on that, at some point it catches up where your body just can't, your body just needs a break and it's going to tell you it needs a break, however you're going to finally listen.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, and I think too, it's because we are getting older.

Naomi Nakamura: We are.

Jenny Castaneda: I mean, I've lived in a very high stress environment for such a long time and only lately have been suffering from anxiety. I'm like, "Okay, is this because I'm getting older?"

Naomi Nakamura: Well it's also 20 years in the tech industry, right? It's about to catch up with you at some time.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, that's true. And I was like, "Wow, I never expected that."

Naomi Nakamura: Yeah. So you see you're acupuncturist every week. I see one, I've been seeing one since 2016 if not every week, every other week. For me, it is probably the most relaxing hour of my week.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, it feels amazing. The first time I came to her for anxiety, I was literally shaking. She was like, "Oh, your pulse feels wirey."

And when she put the needles in me in five minutes when I was laying there, I felt my entire body shut down. And I was like, "Whoa."

Naomi Nakamura: Yes. And if you're listening and you've never had acupuncture done before, they're constantly checking your pulse. Every time they put in a needle their hand is on your wrist and they're checking things out and they will tell you, they're like, "Okay, you're stable now. Your pulse is down." Or, "Your more steady." Or, "Your chi is stronger." Because Chinese medicine sees the body in different systems.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, it was amazing. It felt like I was outside of my body. I was like, "Whoa, what happened?" Because my body was on high alert for like two weeks and once I my acupuncture done, it was like, it shut down to the point that the next couple of days I was just sleeping most of the time, recovering.

Naomi Nakamura: Yeah because once they put the needles in, they leave you to like sit and just relax for I don't know, 15, 20, 30 minutes, however long your appointment is. And that's the relaxing part of it for me is that I can just lay there and my acupuncturist puts this infrared light on my feet so that my feet stay nice and warm. And I can just lay there in silence and I'm not someone who naps during the day. I never have been. Even as a kid.

Jenny Castaneda: I don't either.

Naomi Nakamura: I would get in trouble when I was a kid because I didn't take a nap. But my body is just not wired that way have always been this strongly wired person. But to be able to take that nap that once a week, oh, it feel so good.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, it feels amazing. It's like worth a full night's rest.

Naomi Nakamura: Yeah. So what else does your structure look like in addition to your acupuncture?

Jenny Castaneda: So, I started doing yoga, again, I can't do yoga regularly now. I go to a yoga studio close to home and they have about a 60 minute to a 70 minute yoga session. I go about four to five times a week and every time I go, it just, I felt reborn.

Naomi Nakamura: Is it Hatha yoga or Yin yoga or Vinyasa?

Jenny Castaneda: I think it's Vinyasa yoga. So I can't do the hot yoga because hot yoga triggers my anxiety because it feels like you're in this box that's hot that you can breathe.

Naomi Nakamura: With lots of bodies around you. Yeah, I did Bikram for a year.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, so for people who have anxiety, I would strongly advise you to not go do Bikram or hot yoga because you would pass out. You will feel like you're going to pass out. But regular yoga is amazing, it revitalizes me. What I realized was that if I can focus on my breath, if I can focus on the now, if I can focus on where I am, I can control the feelings I'm having with anxiety. And one of my instructors told me, she also told me that she had anxiety and I asked her, "Hey, how are you dealing with it?"

And she said, "Well, I told myself if I can survive an hour and a half on this mat, I can survive anywhere in the world."

Naomi Nakamura: That's true.

Jenny Castaneda: I'm like, "That's true." Being on that mat is hard because you're hyper-focused. Even though I'm shaking, I could feel the anxiety. I could feel my body like, "Okay, I'm relaxing. I'm focusing, I'm here, I'm now, I'm fine."

Naomi Nakamura: Is that now your primary way of working out or do you still do other workouts?

Jenny Castaneda: I primarily do yoga and I go out for walks, can't go to the gym anymore. I try to do some strength training with kettlebells. So I did kettlebell training for eight to nine years, way back in the day, and I kind of missed it. So I borrowed some bells from my friends so that I can do them at home. So I rolled that in there. But primarily I do yoga and a lot of walking. Anything that is more relaxing and keeps my mind on the present.

Naomi Nakamura: So you meditate and you see your acupuncturist, you go to yoga quite regularly. What else do you do?

Jenny Castaneda: I started seeing a chiropractor, so I switched chiropractors. I remember texting you before that, Hey I have a fear of chiropractors because they crack my neck, which isn't really the right term. But again, it's that feeling of not having control over someone that is-

Naomi Nakamura: Who can hurt you.

Jenny Castaneda: ... that can [crosstalk 00:24:21]. Yeah, that can potentially hurt you. But so I found a new chiropractor. I've been seeing him and he's done wonders for me, so he's helped me a lot. And in addition to that, what I noticed was that chiropractic adjustments and massages afterwards are a good combination to get rid of those body pains.

Naomi Nakamura: Yeah, I've been seeing my same chiropractor since 2010 so I've been seeing her for 10 years now. But I get what you mean about adjusting your neck and here's the thing about adjustments. Like for me it feels so good, like my body feels like this release after I have the adjustment, but even when I know she's going to adjust my neck, I lay there and I close my eyes and I have to mentally tell myself, "Relax, relax, relax, relax." Because if I just relax it'll be a good adjustment and then she'll only have to do it once.

Jenny Castaneda: Well, my chiropractor talks a lot, so he would be like, "Oh blah, blah, blah."

And I'm like, "Oh yeah."

"Oh, okay. It's done."

Naomi Nakamura: That's another way to do it. But I understand what you mean about the combination. I don't know if your acupuncturist has done gua sha on you and I know I've been talking a lot on Instagram about gua sha for the face, but I also get gua sha on like the rest of my body. And my acupuncturist will do it on my back because I hold a lot of tension and my shoulder blades and on my shoulder and in my neck. So I will try to schedule my appointments so that I will have gua sha done on my back and then the next day have a massage.

Jenny Castaneda: Oh, nice.

Naomi Nakamura: Because when you have a massage, when you're so tense, most of the time is spent trying to get work through the knots. When you have gua sha done and if you've never had Washington done, you go and try it. I'm just warning you like it'll look like somebody beat the heck out of you. The first time my massage therapists on my back, he was afraid to touch me and I'm like, "I promise it doesn't hurt." It's all of those toxins because all that intention is stress, they're toxins. It's all that stuff coming to the surface so that it takes the knots out. And so when I go to see my massage therapist for my appointment, all the knots are gone and he's just there to rejuvenate.

Jenny Castaneda: Oh nice. Nice.

Naomi Nakamura: It's a really nice feeling.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, I'll ask her about it. She's done Reiki on me. She's done a lot of light therapies on me but I haven't asked about gua sha. I'm sure she knows how to do that.

Naomi Nakamura: Sure. And it is, I don't know if she's tried moxa on you.

Jenny Castaneda: Yes.

Naomi Nakamura: Because I did moxa for a long time which helped. But the gua sha is the one that I think you and I have had the conversation too about pillows, right? Like what pillow?

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah.

Naomi Nakamura: I mean I've even taken all of the pillows in my house to my chiropractor's office and been like help because I can't get a good night's sleep because none of these pillows are working for me. And she told me, and you and I are about the same size that because I'm petite, the back of my neck, there is no pillow that small enough to be able to support the size of my neck. And so I already had a buckwheat pillow, which she said is probably the best bet for neck support because I can mold it to shape my neck.

Jenny Castaneda: Oh, okay.

Naomi Nakamura: But like I said, that's where I have, I carry so much of my attention. And then also being an office worker sitting at a computer all day, the mouse with my right hand. And so that's going to translate well, now I got tennis elbow, but that's going to translate to the shoulder blade as well and it's all connected.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah. I think too, being in the office and having that one sitting position hurts us. Because you can't always sit perfectly for eight hours. You're bound to hunch and droop and stoop and have a bad posture.

Naomi Nakamura: Or even a standing desk, I don't want to stand on my feet for eight hours. I don't care if I have a soft mat under it, I want to sit down.

Jenny Castaneda: I wear running shoes.

Naomi Nakamura: Oh you do?

Jenny Castaneda: So when I stand at my standing desk, I'll wear my running shoes and I'll kind of like shuffle in place, pretend that I'm walking somewhere.

Naomi Nakamura: Do you stand all day?

Jenny Castaneda: No, I can't. Yeah, at work. I would do two hours sitting down and in three hours standing and then I would alternate one hour on and off.

Naomi Nakamura: Okay. So in addition to all of these things with your chiropractor, are you doing anything else to help manage your anxiety?

Jenny Castaneda: I try to not stress too much.

Naomi Nakamura: Is that like a reframing of thoughts? Or how do you do that?

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, reframing of thoughts. It's more about, for me, as long as I physically feel fine and I mentally feel safe, then the anxiety goes away. And the funny thing is that me sharing it on social media helps a lot because I get these people sending me messages saying, "Hey, I suffer from the same thing. This is what I do." So that sense of community and that feeling that I'm not alone makes the anxiety easier to manage.

Naomi Nakamura: And I appreciate that. That's why I was like to have people on, to share their stories. Because it's great to have experts and all of these people talk about their expert advice. But just to hear other people that we can see that are just like each other to share their stories and so that we can see like, "Oh, I'm not the only one going through this." I appreciate the fact that you've been so open and sharing it because I know this is not something that many people are comfortable sharing.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah. Well I mean also in our culture anything that has to do with mental health is not normal.

Naomi Nakamura: No, it's not.

Jenny Castaneda: They will say, "Oh, you're just going crazy." Or, "It's just in your head." And things like that. So growing up, we never really talked about mental health until now.

But for me, I don't really feel ashamed or embarrassed about it because I'm like, "Okay, this is me. This is the reality of things. This is what I'm dealing with. And this is very human."

Naomi Nakamura: Same. I've been seeing a therapist. I started seeing one in 2009 for work related stress that was severely impacting my sleep. And I really found that it helped me and not just with that situation, but it just really helped me build more self awareness around myself and how I interact with others that I've continued to see him now for 11 years.

Jenny Castaneda: Oh wow.

Naomi Nakamura: And this is something that I know a lot of people aren't comfortable talking about as well, but I'm an open book. I'm very open. I see my therapist for a long time. It was every week and for then it was every other week and then it went to monthly and then it went to quarterly. And then some things happened where now I'm seeing him every other week again. Of course not now. But I think it's very empowering, not just for other people to hear, but for ourselves to share these things.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah. Again, we do great things to take care of our bodies, to take care of everything.

Naomi Nakamura: With our diets and our exercises.

Jenny Castaneda: All the products that we use, but our mental health is equally important. And that's one of the biggest things we neglect where like, "Oh, I'm fine." People sometimes see mental health and the need to see a therapist as some kind of a weakness.

Naomi Nakamura: Oh, I always say I think this world would be such a better place if everyone had a therapist.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, you're not weak because you see a therapist, you see a therapist because you need to help make your mind healthier.

Naomi Nakamura: It's actually, for me, it's liberating because I can say anything I want to this person, this person knows no one else in my life personally. He doesn't care. It's not like I'm talking crap about somebody if I say what I truly think about a situation or a person, there's no personal judgment there. So it's a completely objective perspective that I'm getting. And it's really, really liberating to have somebody that you can say these things to without feeling like you need to be reserved or hold something back because you might hurt someone's feelings.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, exactly. And this person is trained to listen and understand and give us advice. I mean we can always talk to our friends. but there's always a limit because we don't want to put that burden on our friends and say, "Hey." They might think we're complaining.

Naomi Nakamura: Yes. So I really like how you have addressed your anxiety both mentally with your meditation and with deep breathing and even with yoga. But also physically also with yoga and with seeing your other practitioners, your acupuncturist and your chiropractors. Is there anything you would recommend to someone or have you, what do you recommend to someone who might be struggling with this right now?

Jenny Castaneda: Well, I again, it depends. There's different approaches to anxiety. It's not a one size fits all approach. I would recommend doing what I've done. I'm always more into the natural approach first. So try to see if yoga helps, if exercising helps, if doing some deep breathing helps, if reading a book helps reading a book about anxiety, talking to someone, getting some acupuncture or seeing a chiropractor. So I would suggest all of those things. And if that doesn't work and you need something much stronger, I'm not totally against medication. Some people will say, "Hey, medication is bad for you." But a combination of science and holistic methods does wonders for people.

Naomi Nakamura: Well and that's integrative health is right. I'm not opposed to those things either. I think it has to be used in a perspective of this isn't the only answer. Use it in a way to help you in the immediate right to help control your symptoms but then also do all the other work comes with the taking care of your mind, your body and your spirit so that you don't have to rely on that forever.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah. I mean science is wonderful. Science is there, the medication helps. Especially for example, you can't do your job, you really need to do something or your kids need you, you can't drive.

Naomi Nakamura: You need to be able to function on a daily basis. And sometimes those other things are going to take longer to [crosstalk 00:34:24].

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, for sure.

Naomi Nakamura: So I think it's finding a balance between them and not using the medication again to mask what might be at the root of what is causing the anxiety.

Jenny Castaneda: Yes. So I just want to be clear about that. My doctor did give me some medication. I never got the chance to take them because all these methods that I've been using has helped me. They do take a while to work. It's not something that, "Okay, I did yoga, I'm great." Or, "I did some meditation. I'm great." It takes about a week to two weeks for all of those combined together for them to work for me.

Naomi Nakamura: Well, I think you also have to be open and receptive to the fact that it might help you. I think you'd be try these things without being skeptical, that it might not help, it might not help it.

Jenny Castaneda: Even if it doesn't, then you didn't lose anything.

Naomi Nakamura: Right, just be open to trying different things.

Jenny Castaneda: Yeah. You did yoga. Great. That's a good workout for yourself. You did meditation, great you were able to relax your brain. You did acupuncture, great, it improves the blood flow in your body. Even if that doesn't help with your anxiety it did some wonders for you.

Naomi Nakamura: So if things were related to work has anything there changed or have you been able to maybe shift some perspectives that way to help manage that part of it?

Jenny Castaneda: So what I've done is I've done a three approach of work. So my goal everyday is to always hit three things as my goal. So I'm make sure at the end of the day I've done three major things. It doesn't include answering emails. For example, "Collaborated on this project." Or, "I tested some software or I did this." So it has to be three things. Anything outside of those three things has to be moved to tomorrow because you can't do everything that's on your list in one day and that's really helped. And also I learned to really delegate. I know I can do everything at work, we always have that.

Naomi Nakamura: That's really hard to do is to learn how to delegate. It's so hard.

Jenny Castaneda: But I'm like, "Okay, I have a team of eight, they can do it as well as I can, so I'm not going to take this on and I'm going to push everything to them." And that's made it so much easier for me, which means I can focus more on the bigger picture. I can focus more on long term projects and other priorities versus looking at the details of things and stressing out about it.

Naomi Nakamura: They're probably a lot happier too.

Jenny Castaneda: Yes, hopefully.

Naomi Nakamura: Well thank you so much. This has been such a really helpful conversation. I'm really appreciative of how open you've been with everything. Like I said, I know these things run rampantly in tech and currently throughout the rest of the world.

Jenny Castaneda: Yes, for sure.

Naomi Nakamura: So I know for a fact that people will find this helpful. So thank you so much for coming. Where can people connect with you and hear more about how your story progresses?

Jenny Castaneda: So people can connect with me primarily on my Instagram, it's cookandsavor. And you can DM me, you can reply to my latest posts. I always reply to all my messages. So if you want to chat, if you want to connect, if you have a question or if you just want to talk to someone about your anxiety, I'm there for you.

Naomi Nakamura: And you are writing a blog post about this too, right? So it's not published yet, but it will be. So you can check out the show notes for this episode. I will link to it there when it comes out.

Jenny Castaneda: All right, for sure.

Naomi Nakamura: Thanks, Jenny.

Jenny Castaneda: Thank you.