Read the Episode Transcript...

Naomi Nakamura: At the time of this recording, I'm on day 42 of sheltering in place solo. I think by now we can all attest to the importance of social connections and how vital they are to our health and our wellbeing.

For some of us, it's even more important than having a healthy diet and exercising or even getting lots of sleep. The only thing keeping me company during my sheltering in place is my puppy girl, Coco Pop and I'm so grateful to have her with me because this experience would have been so lonely without her. I know many of you feel the same way about your pets as well. Joining me today is Samantha Vaccaroo. She is not only a public health professional, but she's also known as Poppy The Doodle's mom. Now, we're both crazy dog moms who have Instagram accounts for our doodles. I have one for Coco Pop. She has one for Poppy and that is how we connected.

In this episode, you're going to hear Sam and I chat about how we're sheltering in place solo and how our puppy girls are helping us through it. We talk about how having a canine companion can teach us humans how to have structure and routines and boundaries which, you guys, those things are vital to not only our physical health, but our emotional and mental health as well. We talked about how our pups help us maintain social connections, especially as adults when we all know it gets so much harder just to meet people and make new friends the older we get.

I'm sure you all know by now that I'm pretty obsessed with not just Coco Pop but with all dogs. This episode was such a fun one to have and we had such a fun time chatting together. With that, let's get to the show.

Hey, Samantha, welcome to the show.

Samantha Vaccaro: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Naomi Nakamura: So excited to have you and Poppy on this show. If Poppy wants to make an appearance and say something, she's more than welcome to because Coco might as well.

Samantha Vaccaro: She might. It depends who walks by our door.

Naomi Nakamura: For folks who don't know who you or Poppy are, can you introduce yourself and tell us who you are and who poppy is and what you do?

Samantha Vaccaro: Sure. I'm usually known as Poppy's mom. I moved out to the Bay Area about five years ago. I work in biotech full time and I'm originally from New York, New Jersey area. I grew up going to boarding school at 14 and having to make new friends every four to five years, moving around going to graduate school, so I got really good at forming communities. Poppy's Instagram really started as a way to meet people in the Bay Area with other doodles and learn a little bit about them. It was before Instagram started trending and dog community.

Through that, I found really good communities. I noticed that adults really had a harder time making friends and didn't really know where to start. I felt like dogs were a common ground that a lot of people especially in the Bay Area had. In the past year or so, I've started creating dog friendly events around the Bay Area and now taking them virtual during shelter in place. It's really a passion of mine. I lead the alumni group in the Bay Area for my boarding school. We create events. It's really been a passion of mine to do these.

I guess that's a little bit about me. Then, I work in biotech full time at a local Bay Area company. I'm really passionate about that and I have a master's in public health. I'm really focused on bringing information, well-researched information to the masses. I think that authenticity from the science perspective allows me to take my left and right brain and marry them together, but that's a little bit about me. Poppy is a four-and-a-half-year-old Australian Labradoodle who was born in New Jersey. She's a Jersey girl like me. She's a little bit spunky and she has a husband who lives in New York City named Prince.

I have to say that she's the reason why I really settled into the Bay Area so well and I'm so grateful for all the friends that she's brought into my life. She's my first dog which is really cool. It's been such a great experience and I'm only getting one dog. No two dogs for me.

Naomi Nakamura: Well, so it is through Poppy and Coco Pop's Instagram that we connected. Her account is one of my most favorite to follow because she's just so darn cute especially when she has a little flowers in her hair. We're on day, I counted, at least it's about day 43 of shelter-

Samantha Vaccaro: You did count?

Naomi Nakamura: I did count, it's day 43. I'm not married. I'm single. I'm sheltering in place solo, but with my dog and you are too.

Samantha Vaccaro: I am.

Naomi Nakamura: I'm so thankful to have Coco because if not, I would truly be alone. I thought it would just be a really fun conversation to have with another dog mom to talk about our canine companions and what they bring to us and how they really are an important part of our wellness and our wellbeing.

Samantha Vaccaro: I've seen a lot of people who are looking to get a dog now. It's like the best time and the worst time to get a dog. It's the best time for you, but could possibly not be a great time for the dog with socialization and things of that nature, but I think that the dog provides a routine that a lot of people need and that's talked about so much on all these articles of finding a routine in quarantine and finding ...

Naomi Nakamura: Structure.

Samantha Vaccaro: ... structure. It's like when I wake up in the morning, I have to feed my dog and take her for a walk, so I have to get out of my pajamas. I live in an apartment. Maybe if I had a backyard, it would be different, but I have to make those first steps in my morning. Well, I have ADD and I have dyslexia and one of the things that was always emphasized with me growing up was a structure, how it's really important for me. Without structure, I break down.

Naomi Nakamura: You said that Poppy was your first dog, but did you grow up with dogs that helped you create this structure?

Samantha Vaccaro: No, I was one of those kids who was overscheduled.

Naomi Nakamura: Got it. The whole Gen X thing, right? We were talking about that before we started recording.

Samantha Vaccaro: Yeah, I played sports, really competitive sports. I played ice hockey, soccer. I played really competitive sports, so that really gave me a routine, and then going to boarding school at 14, you have no choice but to be in a routine from and-

Naomi Nakamura: And really learn how to manage your time.

Samantha Vaccaro: Yeah and you have to manage your time on your own without a parent. Otherwise, you fail. You're not going to be successful in school. You have teachers who are helping you and you have your other students and a lot of that energy. I think that really was the birthplace of me finding my own routine. I think as an adult, I realized I had to take 21 credits in college just being a science major with labs and then I had a minor. The more busy I was, the more productive I was, the better I was going to take on my day. When I was in New York, instead of having a pet, I gave myself all these side projects and jobs and I created big events on the side. I had a large friend group.

Now, my lifestyle has changed a little bit leaving room for the dog, but I didn't work for four and a half months last year. I took a sabbatical of sorts. I still had that routine because Poppy gave it to me like, "Does Poppy have to go out?" Even when I'm not really aware of my mental state or emotional state, if I see her sitting on the couch bored for maybe the second day, I know we got to go do something and it helps me. I think that's where the dog provides that outside point like a litmus test of like, "How am I really doing? Have I eaten today? Oh, I fed my dog, but I didn't feed myself."

I think from the moment I wake up, I make my coffee while she's eating and I make a smoothie. That sets my day up, and then, I go for a walk with her, so I'm moving and I have to break for lunch. I go out, and then, I take her out with that and then in the afternoon. I think that part of structure, if you stick to it, is really good. Now, I'm not saying all dog owners are going to do this, but I do think that if you really rely on the dog to create that structure where you might feel like you're lacking, it really does help you. At least, I found it. Even when you're sad, you got to get up and walk the dog.

Naomi Nakamura: I love that. I started working from home in 2012, I think July 2012, and that six months of the year, I'm sure it's what a lot of people are struggling with now like I didn't get out of my pajamas and I sit at my desk. As soon as I get up at like 7:00 in the morning, I start working and the next thing I know, it's like 6:00 PM. My butt never left the chair. That continued into 2013. By that point, it's like your body aches because you don't move and you're not ergonomically correct. I got Coco in January of 2014.

Like you, that forced me to put some structures in place so that when I get up, and this is what happens now, is I get up, I go through my morning routine, I brush my teeth I get ready, and then, I put on my shoes and I wait by the door. This whole time she's lying in bed. The girl does not like to get up in the morning. She's lying in bed. When she hears me put on my shoes and grab the keys and the leash, then I can hear her stretching and do her shake out. She comes in moseying out from the bedroom. Then, I put her harness on right now, this is Coco, and we go for a walk.

This is our routine and we come home. She knows that when we come home, she gets a little bit of a play time, just 10-15 minutes, and then, it's time for her breakfast and then I make my smoothie. Then, she goes to work looking out the window as a neighborhood watch and I start my day at my desk. Then, we have our lunchtime break or we'd go out for another walk at lunch. Then, I don't know how she does it, but at around between 4:30 and 5:00, she goes and sits by the door because she knows it's time for her evening walk.

I know that's my time to start wrapping up my day. We go for the evening walk and then come home and then it's dinnertime where she gets her dinner and I start making my dinner. Then again, at 9:30, 10:00, she goes and sits by the door because that's her last potty break of the day, so that tells me like, "Okay, it's time to start wrapping up whatever I was doing." She goes out for her potty break and I don't know how she knows these times, but she always knows the times, and then, it's time to go to bed. She keeps me on schedule, but like you, it's like two days of her laying on the couch doing nothing, I'm like, "Okay, I got it. Maybe I'll take her on a different place to go for a walk or call up a friend and see if they can have a doggy playdate," because if she's bored, then that's my signal saying, "Okay, I need to do something for myself too."

Samantha Vaccaro: That's exactly ... I find that and I also feel like in the opposite direction as much as they get us out and moving, I also think that dogs give us boundaries. I find that my friends are a lot different. I have many of the same friends when I left New York, but my new friends who have come into my life are very different and more balanced because of that. Also, I found that my work-life balance changed when I got a dog. I'm like a recovering workaholic. I used to stay at the office until whatever time, logged back on, logged on on the weekend. I just wouldn't stop.

I also lived a New York lifestyle. I was up until 4:00 in the morning even when I was 35. I remember right before I got my dog, it was like a month before and I had like a major panic. I talked about this on Instagram and I said like, I thought, "How am I going to get a dog? I can't stay out until 2:00 in the morning. What am I going to do? What if I want to do whatever it is? I have a boyfriend. I want to stay over his place.

Naomi Nakamura: You can't.

Samantha Vaccaro: I said, "No, this is exactly why you need a dog. People your age have three kids. Not being able to go out until 2:00 in the morning is not what you should be worried about." I had this talk with myself and I realized it was the right time to get a dog. Then when I looked back on it as much as I didn't want to have a dog in New York, I actually wished I got a dog around the time I was 27, I think my life would have been to the point about structure. I think it would have been a lot better and I think I actually would have left New York a lot sooner and come to a place that would have been better for me like California.

Now, obviously, timing happens as it should. That's the way it goes, but I do think that the structure they provide the boundaries, they provide with other people, I have a friend who just keeps traveling for work and he wants a dog so bad and he's like, "I can't get a dog because of work." I'm like, "But you hate your job," and it's not like he loves it and is thriving, but I think the thing is like, once I got the dog, it was like I can't go on that trip for two weeks. I can't stay at the office until 8:00 because my dog needs to eat. You're starting to have these conversations, not just with work, but also with people in your personal life. You're like, "I can't stay out until 11:00PM. My dog is home."

Then, I had someone, I think maybe it was like a third date or something, and they wanted to stay out later. I was like, "I have to go home and feed my dog." They said, "Can't they just wait?" I was like, "You are not the one for me."

Naomi Nakamura: It's so funny you say all of this because I think it was in my 20s and I was like, "Oh, I want to get a dog," and my coworker at the time, he was like, "No, you can't get a dog." I'm like, "Why don't you think I should get a dog?" and he goes, "You do not have the lifestyle for it." At the time, I didn't understand because while I have been around other dogs in my family, I had never been the one responsible for the dog. I had never had my own and I didn't get that. He was very adamant about, "No, you cannot get a dog," and I was a little bit offended thinking, "Do you think I cannot take care of a dog?" He's like, "Your lifestyle is not set up for it."

I didn't understand what he meant until I got Coco. The way I got her was basically I saw her picture on January 2nd on the website for the Humane Society and I was like, "That's my dog. I need that dog." I called them up and they're like, "She was brought in sick. She wasn't supposed to be posted." They took her profile down immediately. I went down there and I snuck in to see her. I wasn't supposed to, but the guy cleaning the room, because they don't have cages, they're just in rooms, he was like, "Oh, do you want to see this dog?" I'm like, "Yes, I do." I went in and played with her. Then, we went to the front desk and we said, "Hey, I want to talk to this dog." They're like, "Well, she's not ready for adoption yet." I said, "Well but I want to adopt her." They're like, "Fine, we'll just-"

Samantha Vaccaro: This is my dog.

Naomi Nakamura: My friend was like, "Can't you just do the interview now since she already here?" They did the interview, but when they called me two weeks later, they basically said, "She's ready. There's a long list of people who want her, so you have two hours to come and get her. If not, she's going to the next person." I had nothing in my house ready for a puppy. I had never taken care of a puppy. That first month was traumatic. I called the dog trainer, begging her to come to my house, not for Coco, for me to teach me.

Samantha Vaccaro: The dog trainers are training us, not the dog.

Naomi Nakamura: That is how I learned that dogs need boundaries, that I need boundaries and that was really how I started. To your point, once I got her, that was a whole change in lifestyle. For me that at first, it was emotionally hard for me to accept that I can't just go out with my friends especially when she's like 10 weeks old and goes potty like every two hours, "I'm sorry, I can't go to lunch with you," or even last year my work wanted me to go on a trip at the last minute or wanting me to go to a last minute all-day meeting and I said, "I don't I can't say yes right now because I need to see if someone can watch my dog" They looked at me like that was the most ridiculous thing I ever said.

Samantha Vaccaro: It's sort of offensive and I don't know how you feel, but I feel this, I talk to a lot of female employees that I manage, our female friends who are a little bit younger than I am and they'll say to me, "I need to go do this," and they give me like a whole narrative on where they're going. I'm like, "I don't care where you go. You want me to leave here at a certain time, you can't go on that trip, that's fine," because I think and it's not any offense to anybody with a child and I'm not comparing a dog to a child, but I do think that employees who are single, especially women, will have a harder time with boundaries, especially with work, who have a dog, the child is always going to trump the dog person and they don't understand.

People say, "Well, can't you find a dog walker?" It's like, "Well, the last time I found a dog walker, my dog got sick and I ended up with a $600 bill because it was a last minute dog walker," and it's like I think that there's a little bit of that and I always tell people like, "You don't have to tell me where you're going. You don't have to tell me why you can't do something," but because of that in my own life and I'm so acutely aware of it, I can help other people manage their life. I'm like, "I don't care if you're going to yoga after work. You could be underwater basket weaving for all I care. If you need to get out of here, it's as good as a doctor's appointment."

Because as long as you're getting your work done or you have something going on or responsibility, I don't need to know about it. I think that's the boundary part too. To your point about the meeting, it's like, "No, I can't do that." It doesn't mean I don't care about my job. It means that my time isn't any less important than somebody else's and I think that's what I learned with the dog and I just wish I had it eight years earlier.

Naomi Nakamura: Exactly.

Samantha Vaccaro: Maybe 15, maybe my whole life.

Naomi Nakamura: To your point, I actually did have to explain myself when I said, "I live in an apartment. I don't have a backyard. I live by myself. There's no one else there to take care of her. I can't leave her indoors for eight, nine 10 hours straight without a potty break. My dog walker manages his business like a business. I just can't call him and be like, 'Hey, can you take Coco tomorrow?' He has a schedule. She's on a schedule. If you want me to go on this trip, that's okay, but you need to give me advance notice, so I can schedule someone to take care of her. By the way, me going on a week-long trip is like $1,000 for somebody to watch her," or maybe not $1,000, but it's several hundred dollars to pay my dog walker to watch her for a few days.

Samantha Vaccaro: It's like $600 to $1,000, depending on where you're going and what you need to do. If they get sick after and they don't brush them there, so then you've got a $200 grooming bill. I mean, I do think there's a lot of that preparation that really is taken into consideration with the dog. I really appreciate having the dog for that reason too. I find myself to be a lot more balanced as a human. I do think for people who are planning to have children, I don't think that dogs are practice babies, but I do think in that respect, dogs do prepare you for those boundaries you need with children too because I think children need boundaries. You need them for work with getting home and what your schedule is going to be like. Children need routines just like dogs do.

In many ways, I think people are more prepared for children when they do have them if they have this type of schedule. I think I find a hard time with that balance of practice baby dogs and just because of all the things that I know, but I do think to that respect, you do have to take care of something else that relies on you that's completely helpless without you. It's not even like a cat who has a litterbox.

Naomi Nakamura: Exactly. You can't have just somebody drop in once a day to clean the litterbox and then refill the cat's food.

Samantha Vaccaro: I know they have those ones that go around and clean themselves. You don't even have to be there. The cat can just exist.

Naomi Nakamura: Exactly. How else has Poppy influenced your life, whether that be through companionship or just other ways of staying healthy?

Samantha Vaccaro: Well, I really wanted an active dog and I am an active person. I think that when I first moved to the Bay Area specifically, well, I'm not an outdoorsy person. Let's just put it that way.

Naomi Nakamura: I'm not either. I'm sorry. I don't find hiking fun.

Samantha Vaccaro: I like hiking, but I'm not going camping. That's where I draw the line. I like air conditioning and the hotel rooms.

Naomi Nakamura: So does my dog.

Samantha Vaccaro: I'm not going out into the wildlife. I moved here and I had a lot of friends in New York just having grown up there and so I really went from knowing everybody to knowing really nobody. The Bay Area is a very unique community. It's full of a lot of introverts, a lot of people who have a little bit of social anxiety, people who sit in traffic all day and the last thing they want to do is more traffic on the weekends to go see you.

Naomi Nakamura: You nailed it, seriously.

Samantha Vaccaro: Then, it's like an Uber ride is like $35 to go 6 miles. There's a lot of barriers to socialization that New York doesn't have. I could see five different friends in New York because of the subway, all over the city, but in the Bay Area, you really have to stick to where you are for the full day. That's it. You're making one plan. That took a lot of ... I guess I had to accept that. It took a lot of acceptance and realizing and working with the lifestyle. I made a list of all the places I wanted to go and things I wanted to do. Having a companion, I didn't feel like I was doing them alone.

Would I have moved to the Bay Area and gone to the Marin Headlands and hiked in the morning by myself at 7:00 AM? No, but did I go because of Poppy? Absolutely. I got to see things, go places, visit Carmel, go up to Tahoe. I think it's that element of like, "It's the first time my dog will see snow."

Naomi Nakamura: You probably met other people there with other dogs owners and then you have that camaraderie?

Samantha Vaccaro: Right and people in the Bay Area, when you have a dog, everybody here loves dogs. They want to hug all the dogs. It's like this is the city of the meme like pet all the dogs. They're more likely to talk to you. I actually met one of my best friends in the Bay Area because of Poppy in Sephora, and she was looking to get a doodle at some point, started talking to me and we ended up becoming such good friends. We went to her wedding. I never would have met her if it wasn't for Poppy. Then, her sister lived right around the corner from my brother in New York. My mom was getting a dog. My mom needed a dog walker when her dog stayed with my brother, shared the dogwalker information.

So many amazing things happened because of getting Poppy and having that conversation starter, but I think really meeting people and going places and exploring them and going to Napa and doing things by myself. Like I was okay going to dinner by myself in New York. I wasn't somebody who didn't mind being on my own, but I really think that I wouldn't have explored places like hiking which is out of my comfort zone because I'm not an outdoorsy person had it not been for her. I think then I grew more comfortable with hiking and then started going with friends to go hiking. It was like, "Well, I'm going to this place. Do you want to come with me?"

Then, I started learning all trails and finding different hiking spots. That's how I spent my weekends and mornings which felt so much better than when I lived in New York and my weekends consisted of like Trader Joe's runs. I'm like, "How many errands could I fit into my morning before 12?" Those were all the reasons why I moved to the Bay Area. I think that wherever I am from now on, when I'm when I'm traveling with Poppy, we go to new places. I'll find like a dog park or find a dog friendly restaurant. I'll find those places and visit these dog friendly areas and get to explore parts of the community I wouldn't see if I was just like a tourist. You get to really meet people.

Naomi Nakamura: Same, obviously, I didn't move anywhere, but Coco came into my life at a time where a lot of my friends had left the area because it's expensive to live here. They're at a point where they wanted to buy a home or their kids were getting older. I was at a point where a lot of my friends left the area. My social circle shrunk a lot. When I got her is when I started meeting other people with dogs. I remember I've lived where I live for 20 years now, but prior to Coco didn't know any neighbors. I didn't even know what they look like, never even noticed them before, but you get the dog and suddenly you're the girl with the new puppy and so everybody wants to come and meet the new baby.

Then, you're like, "Oh, there's a lot of dogs who live here like I never even noticed that live here," and then you know all your neighbors and you may not even remember their names, but you know their dog's names.

Samantha Vaccaro: Yes, you know their dog's name, definitely. I left New York five years ago and people ask me all the time about the people I know through the dog world in New York. I didn't know any of my friends from New York then. I've met people all over the country because of Instagram with Poppy. Now, when we travel places, I get to know the best hotels. I get to know the best parks, even if I'm not [crosstalk 00:26:47] the dog-

Naomi Nakamura: The dog-friendly restaurants.

Samantha Vaccaro: These people behind the accounts are very creative people. They have similar interests and they're like, "You have to go to this place for margaritas and you have to go for this place to the museum here." I have this wealth of resources at my disposal that I never even had before the dog and it's like I think I spoiled my dog, but I don't think I could ever really give her back everything that she's given to me. I think to your point about exploring, I was going around my neighborhood recently and we've been taking a lot of walks in the same neighborhood, so I find new things that I didn't even notice before like different plaques and historical information and I'm stopping and I'm looking and I'm learning.

I pay attention to things I think very differently because I'm present. I'm not in my phone. I'm not listening to a podcast while I'm walking. I'm not breezing by things, so I become a more observant person because I'm more present. I think that's really great too. Then, I think the sharing part it's like, I go somewhere, I share a high. Five people see it. They want to go. I share that experience. That makes me feel good that I'm helping people. I think those are things that she's really helped me and I really love having a dog so much.

My mom said, "I always knew you love dogs. I thought maybe the novelty would wear off. Now, I think your dog obsessed and you're never going to be without a dog.

Naomi Nakamura: You're like, "And I'm okay with that."

Samantha Vaccaro: I'm like, "Yes, I've been telling you for my whole life like we had to get a dog."

Naomi Nakamura: It's funny you say that about going for a walk without listening to anything. I've noticed this and you can tell me if this is true for you and Poppy as well, when I'm on a walk with Coco and I'm on my phone or I'm listening to a podcast or there's something else going on, it's a much more difficult walk with her whereas opposed to like if I just have nothing and it's just she and I and somehow she can tell my attention is on her and there's almost this deeper connection. We have a pretty deep connection anyways where I feel like-

Samantha Vaccaro: Right.

Naomi Nakamura: ... we can have a long conversation where she can't speak, but I know exactly what she's saying or what she's feeling.

Samantha Vaccaro: Does the dynamic change or does that energy change when you're with somebody else?

Naomi Nakamura: Yes.

Samantha Vaccaro: Without a dog, but just like with another person?

Naomi Nakamura: Yes. Do you find the same thing? What's your connection like with Poppy?

Samantha Vaccaro: Well, Poppy definitely knows when I'm talking on the phone and she starts acting up and it's-

Naomi Nakamura: Because she wants your attention.

Samantha Vaccaro: I try not I try to limit the amount of time. Obviously, with having family and friends on the East Coast, I only have a certain amount of time that I can talk to people which tends to be right before work, they're going to lunch or whatever, my mom, but I try to limit that. I think also she's more leash reactive to other dogs if I'm distracted because she takes on the ownership of protecting the both of us. That really changes the dynamic when we're walking. When I'm with somebody too, like she's, "Pay attention to me."

I also think that I was dating someone for a while and her training got a lot worse. I think that that energy changed things because he was a very disruptive person on his cellphone all the time. She became more leash reactive. I had to get the trainer back. A lot of things happened. I think that's one of the incredible things I love about doing dog yoga. There's a number of people who contact me on Instagram before. They're like, "My dog is terribly behaved. He has so much energy. I can't take him to dog yoga. I would love to," or whatever it is.

There's a couple of those people who ended up deciding to come. I think there's a difference between resource guarding aggression versus high energy. What you find is really how much your energy transfers to your dog. I think that they pick up on things and it's so easy to see when you're doing dog yoga because you go from walking in and you're seeing all your friends and you have this high energy and the dogs are all milling about. Within 10 minutes, that dog is on the floor napping. You look around the room and all the dogs are just passed out on the ground like sleeping.

I love that analogy because if we're feeling depressed right now in quarantine, the dogs are feeling depressed. We like to say like, "Oh, my dog is so depressed right now," but it's like, "No, actually, you're depressed and your dog is picking up on it," and that's okay, but you're projecting it onto the dog because that's what's going on. I've seen just the anxiety of a person transfer to the dog and I can figure that out pretty well, but I think that walking and that engagement with your animal and that's why you got a dog hopefully was to spend time with it. Also, we do a lot of training on our walks. We'll do jump ups and sits and-

Naomi Nakamura: Same.

Samantha Vaccaro: The photo taking teaches them attention and distractibility. I think those are really great things that when people are doing the right thing with their pet, they notice a great difference.

Naomi Nakamura: Absolutely. You have Poppy's Instagram account, but you recently started Canine Companion. What's that account about?

Samantha Vaccaro: I really wanted a formal place to put everything that I was doing with the dog events that I had started last year that was separate from Poppy's account because I think what I found was that my followers really just enjoyed dog photos. Right now, we're trying to do positive quotes every day that are helpful to people with cute photos. That's what people really need, but it doesn't really talk about me. What I found was that there were so many wonderful people that I met through the dog community that were living behind these accounts. I always tell people like, "The dog is not posting photos. You love this account because the person behind it is super creative and a fun person or happy."

As you said before, when we were talking like the energy that you're putting out there is really the energy living behind the account. I really wanted to build a community of dog owners. By sharing my story, whether it was about my biotech background or whatever it is, I have to live as this full complement of a person and I am building it out, so that's what we're going to be doing and sharing like, we're going to do dog friendly travel and information about, I'm not an outdoorsy person, but I want people to get out with their dogs and enjoy nature.

I think that's really important, so I'm going to share about trails and safety on trails. I want to do some, eventually hopefully outdoor hikes with trainers and so teaching people about trail etiquette. That's really important. I love supporting different products that enhance people's life with their dogs. A little bit about those products. Then-

Naomi Nakamura: We have the class tomorrow we're doing.

Samantha Vaccaro: Yes, I'm designing my own product which is really fun. I've been working with a local Bay Area founder and working on that. I'm really excited about that. Then yeah, tomorrow, we're doing the pottery class. It was interesting. I met Courtney, the person who owns Brush Stroke Pottery, when we were at Alt Summit in Palm Springs and we started talking about something completely different because I didn't have a dog with me. People really didn't know what I did. She had a pottery business. We started talking if she owns a doodle. She lives in Austin and I go to Texas a lot and I said to her, "I'm going to probably be going to Texas in April. Let's do an event."

She does local pottery events, local in Austin and I reached out to her a couple weeks ago and I said, "So many people contact me on Instagram and say like, 'I wish I lived in the Bay Area. I wish I lived where it was. I'd love to join. This is exactly what I need.'" I'm like, "Okay, let's do this virtually." So many people are running around the Bay Area. They don't have time. They're traveling. They have kids. Now, they're home, they can do some things.

Naomi Nakamura: Now there's no excuse.

Samantha Vaccaro: Yes, we can all meet each other and talk and I think that having a place for dog moms, we have a very unique ... A lot of people, who have dogs who are in the Instagram community, don't have kids, maybe can't, haven't had kids yet, their kids are older. We all have a similar story of things that we're going through and that's the purpose behind Canine's Companion, to really tell the story of the people who are behind the accounts, share, interact, meet each other and make friends as adults. It's really hard and we move so much for our jobs these days.

I read a statistics that the US has 57% of people will move for jobs more than once or something to different cities and starting over. I just want to include dog dads too. Dog dads are important.

Naomi Nakamura: Of course, I love it so much because I have my own canine companion here who's being so good and nice and quiet right now.

Samantha Vaccaro: You and I have health and wellness in common and so there's that. Other people, our dog mom's going through IVF and they're going through their own. I've heard so many great stories about people meeting people that have enhanced some part of their personal life that I think is amazing.

Naomi Nakamura: Well, especially now, it's always been true, but especially now that we're living through a pandemic where we have to isolate ourselves, that social connection and having a community is a pivotal part of our health and wellbeing, our health and wellness as much as eating a healthy diet as much as movement as much as getting enough sleep. That social connection is so critically important. Like you said, making friends in the Bay Area is difficult. Making friends when you're a little bit older is difficult.

Having a canine companion is one way that's helped me so much to still be able to meet new people and be active and have this emotional connection with my dog and create boundaries. We can go on and on about all the ways that our lives are enhanced by them.

Samantha Vaccaro: Well, I think going back to my science and public health background, because I like statistics and research, but I read in Psychology Today that there was a study done and it takes 200 hours to make a new best friend, 200 hours. That's a lot of time for a working person especially one with kids or two side hustles like us and all these things. 200 hours is a long time. When I hear people say that they're struggling to make friends, I want them to know that it's not them. This is just data of how we bond and connect with people and that time doesn't have to be in person. It can be online, it can be sharing, but I think that when you have a common ground and you can be vulnerable with people, you make a best friend a little bit quicker. Then also just what I learned in public health was that people with strong communities and support systems get through everything better ...

Naomi Nakamura: They're more resilient.

Samantha Vaccaro: ... beat cancer, they have better outcomes, health outcomes, than people without that support system. I think we forget that we're very community-driven individuals. We grew up hunters, gatherers. That's in our DNA. I do believe that as much as we live our life online, especially with Instagram, that in-person connection is really important. That intimate connection is critical. That's why I think I like bringing these events offline. Obviously, we can't do that right now, but I think taking groups and pockets of people with similar interests and even bringing them virtual allows for that connection.

I think everybody knows me and my personal life this way, I'm a connector. If I find somebody who has two mutual interests, I'm like, "I'll set you up and you can go build a company together." I've always been that way. This has just allowed me to do with more people and I love it. I think it's great.

Naomi Nakamura: What is your account and what is Poppy's Instagram account?

Samantha Vaccaro: Poppy is poppy.thedoodle, so period thedoodle, and mine is caninescompanion, and then lately, I just started another one for fun to put my cooking. Before poppy, I had a cooking blog which does not exist anymore and I just started one like whatssamcookin. A lot of my dog followers are actually following my cooking and making like frittatas now that I'm making and all sorts of things which is great. I love it.

Naomi Nakamura: I love it and I will have links to all of those things on the show notes. Do you have a website too?

Samantha Vaccaro: I am building my website and I will have that probably within two weeks. Had to switch from Square to WordPress because Square was just giving me a bunch of problems, so if anybody's listening from Square or WordPress-

Naomi Nakamura: I went the other direction. I had a personal blog. I had WordPress for eight years, and then, I switched to Squarespace and I love Squarespace now, so we went the opposite way, but-

Samantha Vaccaro: I think it's how your brain works. My brain does not work Squarespace. It just doesn't.

Naomi Nakamura: What is the domain because we will link to that as well?

Samantha Vaccaro: It's just going to be Canine's Companion.

Naomi Nakamura: Awesome. Well, thank you so much. We could talk forever. I know we could, but we got to end someway, somewhere, so we'll end for now, but thank you so much for coming on. I've really enjoyed chatting with you and can't wait to see you and Poppy in person.

Samantha Vaccaro: Yes. We're doing pottery tomorrow.

Naomi Nakamura: We are.

Samantha Vaccaro: I think if anybody is having questions about health, wellness, anything we want to do, I always tell people like, "Don't feel intimidated by people who have larger accounts. Reach out to us. Form a connection. Share your stories."

Naomi Nakamura: Well, that's what social media is, is to connect.

Samantha Vaccaro: It is. Social media is to connect with people which is why engagement matters. It's not about your followers. It's not about how many likes you have. It's about creating connections. If I have 300 followers on Canine's Companion, they're all engaged and I'm giving, providing the service and we're sharing. That's more important to me than anything else. Yes, well, thank you for having me.